{"behavior":"degenerate_repetition","label_filter":null,"limit":10,"next_offset":3664,"offset":3654,"previous_offset":null,"rows":[{"assistant_initiates":false,"asst_text":"Creating immersive and authentic names for the units that fit within the context of the Sengoku period while maintaining a sense of realism can greatly enhance the roleplay experience. Here are some suggestions:\n\n### Infantry Units\n1. **Ashigaru Spear Seniors** (Yari Ashigaru) - Reflecting their main weapon and primary role in the ranks.\n2. **Polearm Keepers** (Naginata Ashigaru) - Representing their duty and skill with polearms.\n3. **Heishi Warriors** (<PRESIDIO_ANONYMIZED_PERSON>) - A name signifying the common soldier's role in battle.\n\n### Samurai Units\n1. **Kensai of the Spear** (Yari Samurai) - \u201cKensai\u201d translates to \u201csword saint,\u201d used here to signify mastery over their weapon.\n2. **Dai-Katana Vanguard** (Katana Samurai) - \u201cDai\u201d implies greatness or prominence, making them lead figures.\n3. **Guardians of the Way** (Naginata Samurai) - Signifying their balanced skills in offense and defense.\n4. **Wave Blades** (Ronin) - Indicative of their fluid and unpredictable nature, like the waves of the ocean.\n5. **Gemini Blades** (Dual Wield Samurai) - Representing their proficiency with dual swords.\n\n### Cavalry Units\n1. **Charge of the Crane** (Yari Cavalry) - The crane symbolizes grace and precision, fitting for swift cavalry.\n2. **Swift Blade Riders** (Katana Cavalry) - Highlighting their speed and prowess with the katana.\n3. **Takeda Thunder** (Takeda Cavalry) - Evoking the relentless and powerful force of a thunderstorm.\n4. **Steeds of the Rising Sun** (Mounted Samurai) - Tying their mobility to Japan, known as the Land of the Rising Sun.\n\n### Archer Units\n1. **Rain of Arrows** (Yumi Ashigaru) - Signifying the overwhelming firepower and suppression capability.\n2. **Iron Rain Samurai** (Bow Samurai) - Describing the precise and strategic nature of these archers.\n3. **Sky\u2019s Watch Masters** (Kyudo Masters) - Tapping into their elevated status and refined archery skills.\n\n### Specialist Units\n1. **Zen Spear Monks** (Sohei/Worry Monks) - Bridging their religious dedication and martial prowess.\n2. **Blossom Sisters** (Onna-Bugeisha) - Using flower imagery relevant to samurai symbolism for female warriors.\n3. **Battlefield Shadows** (Battlefield Tacticians) - Analogous to their pivotal yet often unseen influence on the battlefield.\n\n### Support Units\n1. **Bearers of Honor** (Standard Bearers) - Those who carry and symbolize their clan's pride and honor.\n2. **Rhythm of War** (Drummers) - Emphasizing the vital, unifying role of these individuals in battle.\n3. **Mind Surgeons** (Strategists) - Referencing their critical thought and insight, shaping martial outcomes.\n\n### Unique Units\n1. **Guardians of the Crest** (Hatamoto) - Those who protect with unyielding loyalty, often close to their leader.\n2. **Sword Saints** (Champion Duelists) - Aptly capturing their elevated skill in personal combat.\n3. **Stormbringers** (Berserkers) - Summoning imagery of chaos and wild, uncontrollable force.\n\n### Siege Units\n1. **Castle Breakers** (Siege Engineers) - Reflecting their role in breaching fortifications.\n2. **Keeper's Line** (Logistical Support Teams) - Highlighting their critical role in maintaining the army's lifeline.\n\nThese names aim to provide a more atmospheric experience, adding depth and authenticity to each unit in your For Honor-style roleplay setting.","behavior":"degenerate_repetition","conversation_hash":"94a9e1bb2efa0257c3fdc4cf09a9ebb9","conversation_redacted":true,"conversation_toxic":false,"country":"","empty_output":false,"evidence_codes":[],"label":"absent","label_present":false,"label_qualified":false,"label_source":"Final dense release","language":"English","model":"gpt-4o-2024-08-06","n_chars":66586,"n_turns_in_conversation":1,"n_words":11195,"source_row_offset":3654,"source_shard":"turns-00039.parquet","timestamp":"Fri, 25 Oct 2024 02:25:37 GMT","turn_id":"eedd606ed44f00733e0ecb5d","turn_index":0,"user_text":"User: sengoku era samurai troop unit ideas list for my discord for honor roleplay mass combat server (no guns to stay realistic for for honor):\n\nnotes: \n\n\nThe Miniatures Page logo\n\"Are there any rulesets that work at \"contingent\" level?\" Topic\n22 Posts\nAll members in good standing are free to post here. Opinions expressed here are solely those of the posters, and have not been cleared with nor are they endorsed by The Miniatures Page.\n\nPlease do not post offers to buy and sell on the main forum.\n\nFor more information, see the TMP FAQ.\n\nBack to the Classical Asian Warfare Message Board\n\nAreas of Interest\nAncients\nMedieval\nRenaissance\nFeatured Hobby News Article\nLancashire Games: Pre-Release Offer Ending in Days\nWellington in India\n\nFeatured Link\nDark & Feudal Ages at Alicante 2022\n\n\nFeatured Ruleset\nAthena Wargames Rules: The English Civil Wars, The Thirty Years War\nAthena Wargames Rules: The English Civil Wars, The Thirty Years War\nRating: gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star \n\nFeatured Showcase Article\nSumerian Chariots in 6mm\nSumerian regular chariot stand\nRemember back in 2005, when I promised pictures of those Sumerian chariot stands in 6mm?\n\nFeatured Profile Article\nRubbery Dinos at the Dollar Store\nDinosaur\nGet these inexpensive dinos while you can.\n\nFeatured Book Review\nThe Savage Garden\nThe Savage Garden\n\n2,277 hits since 7 Feb 2016\n\u00a91994-2024 Bill Armintrout\nComments or corrections?\n\ndddd99\t07 Feb 2016 8:02 p.m. PST\nHi All,\n\nThe more I read about Sengoku Jidai warfare the more I see it is a mixed unit affair with the lower level troops attached to their feudal master. So a Hojo retainer in the 1570s, for example, might command something like 500-800 troops. These troops fought for him, in close proximity to him.\n\nIt was not until later that infantry organization changed in Japan and teppo ashigaru were \"pooled\" with other teppo ashigaru from other lords to fight in an organized teppo \"unit\", for example.\n\nSo what I am interested in is ANY rules that reflect this; it does not necessarily need to be Sengoku rules that you recommend. I have heard people on this forum describe Feudal Japanese warfare as similar to War of the Roses style warfare, but I also wonder are there more examples of this \"mixed\" style of warfare?\n\nBasically, I am interested in any rule treatment that somehow incorporates this information instead of just turning all \"ancient\" / \"feudal\" warfare into pristine roman unit warfare. Hopefully that last statement won't be misinterpreted; I am at a loss of words to describe this \"mixed\" unit syle of warfare.\n\nI realize that Killer Katanas 2 could cover this period, but to do some of these larger battles you would require a large table. Are there any rulesets that work for people interested in basing mixed units: foot samurai, mounted samurai, and ashigaru with all their different weapons on one base (think of diorama style bases)?\n\nadvocate Supporting Member of TMP\t08 Feb 2016 12:17 a.m. PST\nA diorama style base woulds suit games like Sword & Spear or Impetus. I don't know if either currently have lists. However, they also have standard-sized units, and I wonder if that is what you need, or whether you want different sizes to reflect different contingents.\n\nsetsuko\t08 Feb 2016 12:43 a.m. PST\nI agree that it sounds like you're looking for something like Impetus. If you go for a smaller scale, like 6mm or 10mm, it's easy to mix and match different types on the same base.\n\nI based my troops for DBA and FoG, on just 40mm wide bases, but I could still cram in a few infantrymen on my cavalry bases:\n\n\nThat way, even though you count the base as \"cavalry\" or \"archers\", you can represent them as more mixed, historical units.\n\nIf you go with a ruleset with even larger bases, you can do more impressive stuff, like these:\n\n\nJim Louttit based these on 3 inch square bases, and you can find more examples here:\n\nlink\n\nMike O\t08 Feb 2016 4:19 a.m. PST\nThe free set \"A Coat of Steel\" from Perfect Captain are mixed contingent rules for the Wars of the Roses which I always thought would be very appropriate for adaption to samurai warfare (including pre Sengoku periods). It uses some novel mechanics to prevent it becoming a boring scrum.\n\nlink\n\nRabelais\t08 Feb 2016 6:08 a.m. PST\nI was thinking of converting ACOS myself for Sengoku samurai, but I was put off by the amount of work involved with changing the cards and other playing aids. But it's the best existing template that I'm aware of.\n\nAt the moment we're trying out a conversion of the Great Battles in History board game 'Ran,' using squares instead of hexes. Alternatively, you could use tape measurements, I guess. In Ran, the 'counters' are still single troop types, but a contingent can be made up of 8-10 bases, so there's more of a feel of a contingent being made up of small units of samurai, ashigaru, guns and cavalry. The problem with Ran is that it's a bit costly and hard to get hold of.\n\nRabelais\t08 Feb 2016 7:16 a.m. PST\nI also thought it may be possible to modify Peter Pig's 'Battles in the Age of War' rules. They already allow you to mix ashigaru spears, bows and guns in the same unit, but all samurai are grouped separately, and have their own morale class.\n\nI think it would be possible to mix samurai and ashigaru together and use the appropriate morale class depending on the percentage of samurai remaining in the unit. AFAIK mixing samurai and ashigaru like this wouldn't impact the melee rules.\n\nPersonal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP\t08 Feb 2016 8:08 a.m. PST\nTaiko! will do what you want. Figures are nominally based individually, and the armies are built around sub-commanders. You'd just need to tweak the lists where you want.\n\nlink\n\nmad monkey 1\t08 Feb 2016 9:04 a.m. PST\nTry these if you can get a hold of them:\nlink\n\ngamedad25\t08 Feb 2016 10:00 a.m. PST\nContact <PRESIDIO_ANONYMIZED_EMAIL_ADDRESS> for Chrysanthemum Throne pdf.\n\nI believe they are sold in a bundle with Age of Gunpowder and Le Petit Empereur for $15.00 USD usd.\n\nBelgianRay\t08 Feb 2016 1:55 p.m. PST\nI agree totally with Extra Crispy : go for Taiko. No way around it.\n\ndddd99\t08 Feb 2016 6:49 p.m. PST\nHi All,\n\nThanks for all the responses. I already own Taiko!, Killer Katanas, Impetus, and Sword and Spear. I have 6mm figures: Irregular as well as Baccus (I do not usually mix them). I once attempted to buy Chrysanthemum Throne, but that company closed their internet presence a week before I went to buy them ahah. I think I may email Chipco, based on gamedad25's post above; thanks. I would love to buy BAW, but I would really enjoy a cheaper price or a pdf version since I am not sure it is what I am looking for.\n\nAll of the rules mentioned above I am not sure will suffice for me. I have researched so much Japanese feudal warfare over the past year or so that I have decided to write my own. That was why I was looking for other examples of \"contingent\" warfare.\n\nHere are some responses to the above posts:\n\nadvocate \u2013 I have already played some samurai battles using lists I created for Sword and Spear. What can I say I love Sword and Spear, but it does segregate figures into \"units\". By the way I highly respect Impetus as well but I find S&S more enjoyable; but they are both top notch.\n\nsetsuko \u2013 your work on yr 6mm Baccus is amazing. I have always admired them and have seen them before in prior posts. = ) in fact your images are why I decided to buy Baccus. and I have seen Jim L's work before too. Simply amazing. In fact, his diorama bases are what led me to developing my own \"contingent\" based approach; that and playing my new Nobunaga's Ambition game I got off Steam. I found out that Japanese game/sim creators routinely represent these battles using this \"contingent\" based approach.\n\nMikeO & Rabelais \u2013 thanks so much for the idea to recommend ACOS. I am reading thru it now. = ) Very good stuff so far. Lots of ideas.\n\nExtra Crispy \u2013 I do enjoy Taiko! rules and am very happy to have them in my collection. Ihave said before and will say it again they are definitely worth the purchase. Not too expensive, pdf download and instant gratification.\n\nLike I said, thanks for all the informative and interesting responses, all. Now I am off to read some ACOS and maybe to work on my rules. Best wishes.\n\nLion in the Stars\t09 Feb 2016 11:49 a.m. PST\nI was under the impression that even a low-ranking commander would divide his troops into single-weapon squads of Spearmen, Archers, and Teppo.\n\nThe Ashigaru teppo squads appear to be mixed with ~3-5 teppo and 2-4 bows, with the archers shooting to protect the gunners while they reloaded.\n\nEValerio has some great illustrations that he based on the Takeda Screens, thread is here on TMP: TMP link\n\nI guess the real question is, what figure compression are you running? If you're modeling at something like 1:30, then I'd use a squad stand to represent a company. But if you're using 6mm figures, you could go nuts and model things 1:1 for a not-unreasonable cost.\n\ndddd99\t09 Feb 2016 9:26 p.m. PST\nLion,\n\nI am familiar with EValerio's work. It is top notch.\n\nI believe he has stated before that the Kawanakajima Kassen Byobu screens were influential in his illustrations:\n\n\nI believe these types of formations are referred to as sonae. They are usually 300-800 men. As you can see there are mounted troops and foot troops as well as archers and gunners.\n\nThe issue in my opinion is when you play a game, take impetus for example, its bases represent 300-1200 men depending on the circumstances/troop type. So this seems incompatible with Evalerio's illustrations. If I were to wish to represent his illustration, which I actually do, then one of his illustrations is say 500 men +/-. If 50% of those are ashigaru wielding infantry weapons like nagae yari or whatever, and 20% are an ahshigaru mixture of missile troops (teppo/yumi \u2013 these ratios evolved throughout the sengoku toward more heavy on the gunners). That's about 70% ashigaru. That leaves about 30% of what people refer to as the samurai (I realize this line between samurai/ashigaru definitely became increasingly blurred as the sengoku went on) \u2013 some are mounted some on foot.\n\nTo give a real world example I bought some 6mm Irregular samurai range (I have lots of Baccus as well =-) ). I played it with Sword and Spear rules (which I have high respect for). As some of you may know the figures came in strips and therefore I could not cut apart as you can with Baccus. So I ended up with a base of samurai on foot charging a base of yumi ashigaru for example. If each base were like 300 men it makes this seem odd and not how I now picture samurai warfare.\n\nSo I am saying maybe make a game where we use EValerio's nice illustrations as a template and maybe represent them on the tabletop as Jim Louttit's bases that setsuko has shown above. I dunno to me that'd seem like a sweet game. Maybe I am wrong.\n\nSo thanks for the reply, Lion. To answer your question about figure compression\u2026. I dunno my thoughts above maybe give a rough draft of that\u2026 hopefully. To be honest I have not based my Baccus 6mm yet and I want to make sure I do it right so I am leaning toward Jim Louttit style basing and I need rules to accommodate that. Tall order I know. hahah. take care.\n\nsetsuko\t10 Feb 2016 2:42 a.m. PST\nThinking of it, you could look at games that are even more \"zoomed out\", like Bl\u00fccher. A lot of the time when I read about campaigns in the period, the commanders focus much more on the issues that Bl\u00fccher deals with (getting your divisions to the right place, marching orders, scouting, surprise attacks, choosing a favourable battlefield) than \"this unit of spearmen charges into this unit of spearmen\".\n\nWe're planning to try out Bl\u00fccher at the club once we've painted up enough 6mm napoleonics, and maybe after that I know more about how easy it would be to convert to 16th century Japan. And basing and unit composition would be far less important when you're \"units\" represents a corps.\n\nBut I agree, it's very hard not to feel like you're constantly trying to fit a square peg through a round hole when looking at army sized tabletop games in this period.\n\nRabelais\t10 Feb 2016 3:50 a.m. PST\nThe precursor to the GBOH board game 'Ran,' called 'Samurai,' had 4 troop types: cavalry, infantry, bows and teppo. The latter two were treated as lighter units. For the later Sengoku period, a mechanism was introduced whereby all infantry could fire as teppo to represent the greater proportion of guns being used. There was no distinction between 'ashigaru' and 'samurai' infantry. I'm led to believe that such a distinction is rarely made in Japanese boardgames of the period either.\n\nThe rules are a free download here:\n\ngmtgames.com/p-169-samurai.aspx\n\nNow, I'm not sure whether it's infringing copyright, but there are scans of the playsheets on the Board Game Geek page for the game, too.\n\n\nAnyway, the rules are maybe worth looking at. I still feel a conversion of ACOS would work well, particularly if you use the system of counters from the ACOP campaign game to build your contingents. But it's too much work for me at the moment. I'd love to see any progress you make with it, however.\n\nLion in the Stars\t10 Feb 2016 8:06 p.m. PST\nI think I'd have to give every unit a shooting attack of some level at the stand=500men level of representation.\n\nJust lump it all together, and assume that the clan commander will make whatever formation changes are necessary.\n\nThen again, I'm pretty much a pure 1:1 gamer, so army level battles aren't something I do very often.\n\ndddd99\t11 Feb 2016 8:36 p.m. PST\nSetsuko & Rabelais thanks so much for the replies. I have been reading about Bl\u00fccher lately. Yes I think the \"zoomed out\" approach is more what I am going for. Not that I have anything against a smaller approach; I just do not think that many rules and basing systems achieve a historically accurate experience. In other words, if you look at the Kawanakajima Kassen Byobu screens or an EValerio illustration -- I have never seen that represented on the tabletop satisfactorily. It would require quite a large tabletop to achieve that with the individual unit approach.\n\nSo Lion, a 1:1 representation would prohibit you from simulating some of the medium and larger sengoku battles. I think you're all right with that though; It is just what you prefer. But if you invited me to a game of 1:1 and it involved samurai I would definitely accept and be happy for the game =-) . And your comment about giving each unit at the stand=500men level of representation a shooting attack is something I have already done in my humble homebrew rules. I think it is a must in that case.\n\nRabelais, I am definitely paging thru ACOS. And if I do make any progress I will try to update. And also thanks for the samurai rules link. I downloaded them and read thru them briefly at quiet points in my day.\n\nSo again, thanks for the comments. It has been enlightening for me to get so many good recommendations and exposure to other good rulesets. Take care and best wishes.\n\nRabelais\t17 Apr 2016 4:50 a.m. PST\nWe finally got round to trying 'Ran' on the tabletop. It worked well, all thing considered. Each 'clan' can have around 10-20 'units' so there is more of a feel of a clan being composed of small contingents than other sets.\n\nAnyway, thoughts and report are here:\nwargamesasp.wordpress.com/2016/04/17/ran\n\nMike O\t18 Apr 2016 2:07 p.m. PST\nGreat report there, Rabelais, lots of food for thought. I own the original \"Samurai\" boardgame but not \"Ran\" \u2013 just curious, in general terms, if there were many changes in the CRT and other charts between the two?\n\nWulfgar\t18 Apr 2016 8:56 p.m. PST\nWell done, Rabelais. Using the rules from the \"Ran\" boardgame is inspired.\n\nHopefully there are more copies out there. I just bought the last copy of GMT's \"Samurai\" from Fine Games through Amazon. I think that Noble Knight Games still has a copy or two of \"Ran,\" but its getting into collector's item prices. About $119 USD or so, I think.\n\nHowever, The rules can still be downloaded for free through the GMT website, so actually purchasing the actual games might not be necessary.\n\nFor myself, I stumbled across \"Irregular Wars,\" which provides a similar game, but without all of the markers cluttering things up. I've been very happy with being able to play battles between small clans, and the table top looks much like the one in your photos.\n\nIrregular Wars can be perused at this link from the author, Nicholas Wright:\n\nirregularwars.blogspot.com\n\nIrregular Wars provide lists for the earlier Muromachi period, the Sengoku Jidai, the Ikko Ikki and Sohei, the Ming, the Manchurians, and the Joseon Koreans.\n\nRabelais\t19 Apr 2016 2:10 a.m. PST\n@MikeO\n\nAs far as I can tell the CRT and other tables are exactly the same. However, the combat numbers are different due to the extra number of troop types. 'Ran' is a more streamlined set of rules than 'Samurai' IMO, but you should be able to continue to play 'Samurai' and use whichever changes you like from the 'Ran' rules without too much trouble.\n\nWe played 'Samurai' first and I liked that they had one infantry class rather than splitting samurai and ashigaru (which is apparently the norm among Japanese board games). Overall I think 'Ran' is an improvement but 'Samurai' works fine too.\n\nRabelais\t19 Apr 2016 2:17 a.m. PST\n@Wulfgar\n\nThanks for that, another set to check out!\n\nSorry - only verified members can post on the forums.\n\nRadious Mods Wiki\nExplore\nWiki Content\nCommunity\n FANDOM\nFan Central\nBETA\nGames\nAnime\nMovies\nTV\nVideo\nWikis\nStart a Wiki\nSign In\nRegister\nRadious Mods Wiki\n50\npages\nExplore\nWiki Content\nCommunity\n\n\nUnit Pack 2 -- Sengoku Jidai Campaign\nView source\nS2 unit pack 2\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nLink to the original thread posted on Total War Center forums (This is where you can find download links)\n\nThe second unit pack released by Radious adds 38 brand new units to the original Shogun 2 campaign making it one of the largest mods of its kind. This mod is fully compatible with all of Shogun 2's dlc's and *should* work alongside any other mods that add custom units to the game. Note: This only adds units to the default campaign and custom battles. It will not work on MP unless both parties have the mod installed.\n\nRadious published two other unit packs that correspond with the other two dlc campaigns (click to navigate to their respective pages):\n\nUnit Pack 1 -- Rise of the Samurai Campaign\nUnit Pack 3 -- Fall of the Samurai Campaign\n\nTo see specific stats and pictures of units added by this pack simply click the name of the unit you wish to view:\n\n\nContents\n1\tBow/Matchlock Units (Misc.)                                                           \n2\tCavalry\n3\tNinjas\n4\tOnna Bushi (Female Warriors)\n5\tPirates\n6\tPortuguese Tercos\n7\tSamurai\n8\tWarrior Monks\nBow/Matchlock Units (Misc.)                                                           \nBow Warrior Nuns\nMatchlock Ronin\nCavalry\nMounted Katana Ashigaru\nMounted Yari Ashigaru\nNaginata Cavalry\nYari Ronin Cavalry\nNinjas\nBow Ninjas\nKatana Ninjas\nMounted Katana Ninjas\nMounted Naginata Ninjas\nNaginata Ninjas\nNinja Hero\nTetsubo Ninjas\nYari Ninjas\nOnna Bushi (Female Warriors)\nElite Onna Bushi\nMounted Onna Bushi\nYari Onna Bushi\nPirates\nBow Pirates\nHeavy Sword Pirates\nKatana Pirates\nMounted Yari Pirates\nNaginata Pirates\nPirate Captain\nTetsubo Pirates\nYari Pirates\nPortuguese Tercos\nMounted Tercos\nPike Tercos\nSabre Tercos\nSamurai\nBow Light Samurai\nHeavy Armored Samurai\nKatana Light Samurai\nMounted Naginata Light SamuraiMounted Naginata Light SamuraiNaginiata Light Samurai\nNaginata Light Samurai\nNodachi Ronin\n<PRESIDIO_ANONYMIZED_PERSON>\nWarrior Monks\nKatana Warrior Monks\nMounted Katana Warrior Monks\nTetsubo Warrior Monks\nCommunity content is available under CC-BY-SA unless otherwise noted.\nPopular Pages\nPike Tercos\nPike Tercos\nUnit Pack 2 -- Sengoku Jidai Campaign\nUnit Pack 2 -- Sengoku Jidai Campaign\nMounted Tercos\nMounted Tercos\nSabre Tercos\nSabre Tercos\nFandom logo\nExplore properties\nFandom\nMuthead\nFanatical\nFollow Us\nOverview\nWhat is Fandom?\nAbout\nCareers\nPress\nContact\nTerms of Use\nPrivacy Policy\nDigital Services Act\nGlobal Sitemap\nLocal Sitemap\nCommunity\nCommunity Central\nSupport\nHelp\nDo Not Sell or Share My Personal Information\nAdvertise\nMedia Kit\nContact\nFandom Apps\nTake your favorite fandoms with you and never miss a beat.\nFandom App logo\nStore icon\nStore icon\nRadious Mods Wiki is a FANDOM Games Community.\nView Mobile Site\nFollow on IG\nTikTok\nJoin Fan Lab\nCheck out Fandom Quizzes and cha\nSearch this wiki\nSearch all wikis\n\nSkip to content\nWisely lead\u2026 without a head!\n\nRules for the Sengoku Jidai: Core Mechanics\nOct 15, 2020 by mmcv, posted in Feudal Japan, Rulesets\nIn my last post I gave a bit of background for my thinking on how a Sonae based Sengoku Jidai ruleset might work and some of my early experiments with it. To recap, the Sengoku Jidai refers to the period of civil war that devastated Japan in and around the 16th century. Armies were generally organised into sub units of mixed arms clans known as Sonae. The terrain of Japan meant warfare tended to favour looser formations and manoeuvre than would typically be seen elsewhere in the world at the time.\n\nFor the moment I\u2019ve settled on \u201chit dice\u201d as my randomisation method, namely rolling 4 dice, adding or removing dice based on situational modifiers, then counting any 6\u2019s as a success. In this post I hope to explore some of the core mechanics I\u2019ve been trying out; command and control, movement, combat and morale.\n\nI am writing these into a more \u201ctechnical\u201d rules document, but wanted to lay out some of the general concepts here. At the end I will have a brief pencil and paper battle report to show how some of the mechanics play out.\n\nCommand and Control\nThis refers to the means in which the players actually command their armies and give orders to commanders and units. There are essentially three levels of command. The first and lowest level is the individual units, typically a mixed arm Sonae, commanded by a Samurai-daisho (military leader) a minor Daimyo (feudal lord). These commanders are abstracted into the units themselves and assumed to be dealing with the individual allocation of troops within the Sonae.\n\nMultiple Sonae will generally be grouped together into a Te, or division. The most senior, and usually most powerful, Sonae within this division, is known as the Honjin (or headquarters Sonae), usually commanded by a senior Daimyo. This Honjin Sonae is the Commander for the entire Te, and is the one from which actions to the individual units will flow.\n\nAn army will generally consist of several of these Te with the leader of the most senior Daimyo\u2019s Te being designated the overall Army General. Unlike the Commanders who are embedded into their Honjin Sonae, the Army General is treated as a stand alone entity based separately to a Sonae, though they will usually have one or more powerful Sonae in their own Te commanded by trusted retainers, usually including a Honjin Sonae with it\u2019s own Commander. Typically there will be one Army General per side, but in large, multiplayer battles, there could potentially be multiple Army Generals, each leading their own set of divisions in coordination with their ally. This can lead to some fun possibilities for betrayal and treachery, as was common in the period.\n\nThese Army Generals may be in one of two states. The first is \u201cEncamped\u201d whereby they are based with their Maku screen and retainers, usually in a prominent but well defended position in the battle field. In this state they have powerful defensive modifiers, can send out messengers to their commanders, but cannot move themselves.\n\nThe second is \u201cMobile\u201d whereby they mount up with their personal unit of bodyguard troops, known as the Hatamoto, and become a powerful unit in their own right with rapid movement but no ability to send out messengers to commanders and a greater chance of personal injury.\n\nThe fourth Battle of Kawanakajima: Takeda Shingen Vs Uesugi Kenshin - by  Dmitry Filatov. | Takeda shingen, Samurai art, Japanese history\nThere is a somewhat fanciful story of the great rivals Uesugi Kenshin and Takeda Shingen engaging in a brief duel when Kenshin, mounted with his Hatamoto personal guard burst into the Takeda camp and engaged an unprepared Shingen, who was forced to defend with his steel war fan until his own Hatamo could drive Kenshin off. While it likely never happened, it does provide a good example of the two different ways Generals can operate.\nGiven the hierarchical clan status of the armies, the loss of a Commander will generally mean the loss of an entire division, and the loss of the Army General will usually spell the loss of the entire battle. So there is a fine balance between using these as powerful offensive units, while keeping them safe from harm at risk of collapsing the army. There is some potential around loyalty and successor mechanics that may mitigate this collapse somewhat, likely a series of Morale tests for the units and a test or special trait that allows a Commander or General to have a worthy successor to take the reigns of battle, but I\u2019ve still to shake out the details on them.\n\nEach commander (including the general) will have an Authority value representing their right to rule and the respect they hold from their retainers. This can be a positive or negative value, depending how powerful or weak they are. This value will be used to modify the number of orders that they can give. The commanders will also have a Command Radius that extends out from their unit, with Authority increasing or decreasing the range. Any units outside this Command Radius may only be given one order per activation. Any units within the General\u2019s Command Radius will gain a bonus to their Morale tests.\n\nAt the beginning of each turn the player will decide if their Army General is Encamped or Mobile. If Encamped then they may designate a Commander to send a messenger to. If both the General and Commander are out of range of any enemy units then this is decided with a simple 4 + Authority d6 check (success on at least one 6). If either is within range of the enemy, the check is opposed and must score more successes than the enemy to succeed. If successful, then that commander can add the general\u2019s Authority along with their own to their next activation. I did briefly toy with having messengers as their own units that travelled across the battlefield, but it became somewhat messy and required remembering which messenger had been directed at which commander. I suspect the messenger rules will undergo further modifications in time, for instance reducing the available dice over longer distances.\n\nActivations are dynamic. For each command a token should be placed in a bag or stack to allow for random activations. Ideally this would be a token with the clans Mon (or symbol) on it, but could equally be coloured dice or chits, a stack of cards, etc. Anything that lets the players randomly allocate command activation. Players will draw a token and whichever general that token belongs to can allocate it to a command within the army. That command then activates and performs its actions, then the next token is drawn and the process repeats. This means play can alternate back and forth between the players, or may result in one player having a run of a few activations then the other player having the same. Each command can only activate once per turn.\n\nKamon Symbols of Japan \u2014 Encyclopedia of Japan\nThe Mon of some of the better known clans in the period, this would appear prominently on banners and screens for the clan\u2019s troops. Some of the clan names in this graphic are non-standard renditions, such as Mouri (Mori) and Houjou (Hojo).\nOnce activated the command rolls a single d6, adding the appropriate Authority modifiers, and that will give the number of orders that can be given that activation. Orders can then be allocated out amongst the units under command to move, engage in combat or rally. There is no limit to the number of orders that each unit can have assigned, up to the total allocated, but those units receiving a large number of orders will have to take a morale test and on failure become fatigued and unable to take any actions the following activation.\n\nOnce all the orders have been allocated, or the player doesn\u2019t wish to allocate any more, the activation ends and the next one is drawn. Once all commands have been activated, the turn ends and the cycle begins again.\n\nMovement\nThis relates to how the units actually manoeuvre around the battlefield. My plan is to keep movement fairly simple. The distance of movement is the same for all units, though certain units will be allowed an extra move such as mounted generals. I\u2019m generally assuming the unit of movement will be around a base width, as that\u2019s usually a decent indicator of unit and table size. Each unit will have a front quarter, a rear quarter and two flank quarters, with the boundaries extending in diagonals from the unit\u2019s corners. When I say something is n Movements, it means n units of whatever the movement distance is. To make a movement a unit will be issued with a Move Order. This will allow them to do one of three things:\n\nMove directly into their forward quarter by up to 2 Movements maintaining facing. This may include charging into contact with an enemy unit.\nFall back into their rear quarter by 1 Movement maintaining facing. If this is given to a unit in combat they must take a Morale check after doing so.\nChange facing to a different quarter and make up to 1 Movement in the new direction of facing. This covers all manoeuvring, whether it be changing facing and remaining in place, or moving in a new direction.\nUnits may be issued any number of Move Orders so long as the commander has Orders to allocate and they begin the orders within the Command Radius of the commander.\n\nTerrain will have some impact on movement, essentially difficult terrain will only allow one Movement forward rather than two and roads allow an extra Movement when going forward or back along it. These rules still need a bit more experimentation. It may be that difficult terrain ends all movement for that unit for that activation and they cannot be given any more Move Orders.\n\nCharging Mounted Samurai\nMassed cavalry charges were rare in Japanese warfare of the period, but small groups of mounted samurai could turn the tide of battle when striking the right place at the right time.\nGiven the fixed distances, the rules as written could be easily translated to a square or hex grid. I\u2019ve been playing out test games on gridded notepaper (mostly because it\u2019s all I have to hand with everything packed away to sell our house) and it\u2019s worked reasonably well, but overall the fluidity of free measurement will provide a much more satisfying range of movement options.\n\nRanged Combat\nThere are two types of combat in the game. The first, and generally less effective, is Ranged Combat. This represents the proportion of bows and guns within a unit. While bows and guns of the period had a theoretical range of 300-500 metres, in reality the effective range against armour was around 50-100 metres. Over time as the proportion of guns increased, firepower became more effective, but was still primarily used as a means of defence, behind screens and fortifications, or for softening up an enemy before the charge into melee for offensive actions.\n\nStandard Ranged Combat will work as an exchange between two units at a range of 2 Movements or less. Most units will have some means of firing, even if its just a few samurai with bows and guns. There will be modifiers available to units, typically ranging from -2 to 2 that can reflect the proportion of guns and firing capacity. In a Ranged Combat exchange, both units will roll their ranged attack dice, hitting on 6s then total up the number of hits inflicted. The default number of attack dice is four, though the modifiers mentioned previously along with a few other special conditions (e.g. firing up a hill would be -1, while firing at close range would be +1) can modify these dice up and down.\n\nAny side that receives at least one hit must make a Morale test, which will be described later but essentially consists of throwing four dice (+/- modifiers) with at least one 6 needed for a pass. For each additional hit past the first one in the Ranged Exchange, a dice is removed from the Morale test. So if a sonae of the Ouchi engages a sonae of the Mori in a ranged attack, both players would roll their attack dice. If the Ouchi rolled three 6s and the Mori rolled one 6, then both sides would be required to take a Morale test, but the Mori would do so with 2 less dice than normal due to the two additional hits.\n\nFailing a Morale test from a ranged attack results in a unit status change. A unit that is fresh and in good spirits will become Wavering, which will somewhat impair their ability to fight in Close Combat. A unit that is already Wavering will become Brittle, which impairs them further still. A unit that is already Brittle will break and be removed from the battle. This means a ranged exchange is unlikely to cause serious damage unless a unit is already in dire straights. There will be a Rally mechanic described later to remove these statuses.\n\nRanged Ashigaru\nMost ranged combat was done by sub units of Ashigaru peasant soldiers armed with matchlock \u201cteppo\u201d guns and light weight long bows known as \u201cyumi\u201d, though samurai would often have guns and bows as their primary weapons well. Indeed the yumi was the traditional primary weapon of samurai in earlier periods before massed peasant infantry and firearms became the norm.\nExceptions to this standard exchange are when engaging from the flank, in which case only half your attack dice can be used, or from the rear, in which case only one attack dice can be used. There is also the possibility of Opportunity Fire, the exact details of which are still under review, but will generally allow a unit to take unopposed pot shots at anyone entering firing range. I\u2019m still not entirely sure on this given the exchange nature of standard firing, it\u2019s mostly a means to prevent units skipping along the front of the enemy without consequence, but I may instead implement some form of Zone of Control on movement that prevents this instead. The other type of firing is Closing Fire, which I\u2019ll cover shortly as part of the Close Combat exchange.\n\nClose Combat\nClose combat consists of up to four phases, Charging, Closing Fire, Melee and Shock. Charging is covered under the movement rules and is a movement that ends in contact with an enemy unit. The unit that initiated the charge will gain an extra dice in the first round of Melee. If a unit is Wavering it must pass a Morale test before charging and a Brittle unit cannot charge at all.\n\nThe defending unit may choose to use Closing Fire, that is an unopposed ranged attack, i.e. only the defender rolls their attack dice. If it is successful in hitting the charger, and the charger fails the Morale test then the new status is applied, the charge will be cancelled and the charger will fall back or pull up 1 Movement short of the enemy unit. However, if the charger is unharmed, the defender will have one less attack dice to use in the following round of Melee combat. This is to simulate the delay in bringing up the melee troops while firing at the charging unit.\n\nThe Charge and Closing Fire occur as part of the normal cycle of Orders, but Melee doesn\u2019t occur until the end of the Activation. This allows all movements and ranged attacks to be carried out first, then all close combat will be resolved.\n\nThe Melee Phase involves both participants rolling their attack dice, modified as needed, with different results depending on the outcome. If both units fail to make any successful hits, then each will fall back 1 Movement to their rear quarter. If this movement is blocked, for instance by another unit or a terrain feature, they must instead take a Morale test and apply the appropriate status if failed. If both units make the same number of hits, they remain locked in combat and nothing else happens for them until the next time one of their commands is activated. If one side manages to make more successful hits than the other, that side is considered the victor and may move onto the Shock Phase.\n\nThe Shock Phase is representative of the elite troops, such as the samurai, exploiting a weakness opened up by the melee and rushing in to try and destroy the enemy command. In the Shock Phase the victor rolls their attack dice modified by any shock modifiers they may have (typically terrain affects the impetus of the shock phase more than the melee) with the outcome depending on how many successes they have.\n\nWith one success the enemy unit is destroyed but the attacker is Fatigued.\n\nWith two successes the enemy unit is destroyed and the attacker is not Fatigued.\n\nWith three or more successes the enemy unit is destroyed, the attacker is not Fatigued and gets a bonus order to use immediately.\n\nThe number of orders may increase with increased success, to be confirmed, and the destruction on one success might be too powerful, so one success may apply a status while two success destroys, etc. These are details to be ironed out in play testing.\n\nArtwork of battle\nCombat in the period often ended in bloody and brutal close combat.\nWhere multiple units are engaged, all dice are rolled together. This is the most \u201cbucket o\u2019 dice\u201d part of the rules, but means large engagements can be dealt with quickly, and makes multi unit melee combats very dangerous, especially if Commanders are involved.\n\nFlank and rear attacks also behave a little differently. There is no Closing Fire when attacking a flank or rear of the unit, and the defending unit cannot use a Shock Phase if it is engaged to the flank or rear, instead if it is victorious in the Melee Phase, the attackers both fall back 1 Movement. This is because an attack at a weak point of the formation would usually be reinforced by the samurai core of the unit, meaning they\u2019ve less momentum to carry out a destructive counter attack immediately and instead just drive the attacker off. Any unit attacking the rear gains an additional attack dice as well as that was usually the weakest point of a formation.\n\nMorale\nAs mentioned in previous sections, each unit will have a certain amount of Morale that it can use to show how resilient it is to breaking. All units have the same potential Morale statuses, Wavering and Brittle, though how those statuses affect different areas of the game will vary. Morale tests are called for in a number of circumstances where the resolve of the unit needs tested. Morale tests behave the same way as other tests in the game, a number of dice, four by standard, are thrown with at least one 6 being required to make it a success. Some units may have Resilience modifiers that can increase or decrease their morale dice, and having the Army General within range can provide an extra morale boost too.\n\nOne of the orders available to a commander is a Rally Order. With this a unit that is not in attack range of an enemy unit (i.e. typically 2 Movements away) and within the Command Radius of it\u2019s Commander, may perform a Morale test and if successful, can reduce their negative statuses. So a Brittle unit that passes it\u2019s Rally Morale test will become Wavering, and a Wavering unit that passes loses the negative status and returns to being fresh and ready for action.\n\n\nFacing this sort of devastation would shake the morale of even the loyalist of samurai, let alone the peasant masses.\nThere are still some balancing tests needed with morale, for instance having the presence and loss of nearby units impacting the roll or requiring additional tests, but for the moment I\u2019m keeping it reasonably simple.\n\nOther Considerations\nThere are a few areas that still need some thought and consideration. I\u2019m still testing out various options for moving through and fighting over different terrain. Given the varied landscapes of Japan I don\u2019t want this to be too much of an imposition, but certainly particularly rugged ground should impose some limitations and fordable rivers appear in a fair few battles of the period so they are important to consider too.\n\nDefensive works is another area that needs some thought. It was quite common for armies in the period to entrench into a defensive position, especially as the ratio of guns increased in armies allowing them increased concentrations of fire. This is definitely something I want to include, either as fixed terrain pieces on the battlefield or as a \u201cdig in\u201d option for a unit. I need to do some more reading on this before deciding how to represent them though.\n\nAssaulting a defensive line\nDefensive works were commonly employed on the battlefields of Japan, often made from bamboo or bundles of reed mats. By the later period, concentrations of firepower would make assaulting such defensive works head-on suicidal.\nBeyond that there are a number of special rules and traits I want to include. I\u2019ve already got an outline of many of these as a means of conferring special abilities on Generals, Commanders and individual Clan units. I want to be reasonably cautious with these to avoid it becoming a bit too video gamey or \u201cHollywood\u201d, but I do wish to include some means to highlight leaders who stood out from their peers through tactical or strategic brilliance, or lack thereof, as well as clans that specialised in particular types of combat or weaponry, or were particularly loyal and devoted. There\u2019s also some consideration to be given to the numerous sects of fanatic warrior monks throughout the period and peasant rebellions. I\u2019m not focusing too much on these until I\u2019m completely happy with the core mechanics, though have plenty of ideas for how they could work.\n\nFormations is another thing that needs more consideration \u2013 both the individual makeup of the sonae and how they organise themselves internally, as well as the larger formation of the entire army. For the sonae themselves, different formations may confer different sets of modifiers, for instance aggressive or defensive formations, or those focusing on concentrating firepower, while for army wide formations, I\u2019d be inclined to leave them up to the whim of the players as if I get things right they should \u201cjust work\u201d as they were intended given the way the battles play out. We shall see!\n\nBeyond that I\u2019ll want to consider some \u201cmeta\u201d play around a campaign system, or some means of playing linked battles, as well as some strategic considerations around scouting and espionage that may aid with deployment and game set up. The idea is allow for both historical battles and ones of the players own devising covering various possible scenarios from a straight up fight, through defensive actions or taking of key objectives. I\u2019ve not decided if I\u2019ll look at sieges or not yet, though castle assaults were a common feature of the warfare.\n\nBattle Report\nThis is one of my pencil and paper test games played out on gridded paper to try out some of these core mechanics. In it, the fictional Maru (circle) and Shikaku (square) clans engage in a clash for control of a key river crossing. I rolled for random entry points across the game area rather than having everyone come in from opposite sides, this felt natural given the mustering of troops tended to involve calling in subject clans. Each army consists of three divisions, marked 1, 2 and 3, so for the purpose of this I will refer to them as the divisions as Maru-ichi (in the south centre), Maru-ni (north centre) and Maru-san (north west), then Shikaku-ichi (west centre), Shikaku-ni (south east) and Shikaku-san (north east). The notations is as follows:\n\nGm = Mobile General (bonus to movement and attack, negative firing)\nGe = Encamped General (bonus to everything, messengers but no movement)\nC = command sonae (bonus to everything)\nX = normal sonae\nF = firing focused sonae (bonus firing, negative melee)\nM = melee focused sonae (bonus melee, negative shock)\nS = shock focused sonae (bonus shock, negative firing)\nf = fatigued\nw = wavering\nb = brittle\n\nHopefully the hills, forest, river, stream, bridge and marsh are self explanatory. The position of the number indicates facing and the negative number on commands indicate lost units.\n\n\nIn the opening turn the Maru-san clan attempts to skirt around the Shikaku-ichi position to link up with their General, however they soon come in range of the enemy gunners stationed on the hill.\n\nIn the south, the Maru-ichi General moves to fortify a hill opposite the Shikaku position. Meanwhile the Shikaku-ni clan rushes towards the bridge to seize the objective and support their allies. In the north the outnumbered Shikaku-san clan attempt to secure their flank on the forest and present a line of attack to funnel the Maru-ni enemy into.\n\nThe Maru-san find themselves pinned down by enemy fire as the Shikaku General brings his troops to bear on their slow advance. Feeling the pinch on their flanks the Maru-san turn to engage. In the north east, after several exchanges of fire, an impetuous rush by a Maru-ni daisho drives some of the Shikaku-san from the field, and feeling the potential for encirclement growing, the Shikaku-san pull back into a better defensive position.\n\nNot wishing to relent on the pressure, the Maru-ni keep pressing the beleaguered Shikaku-san, while the unopposed Shikaku-ni set up a solid defence between the stream and river. Frustrated by the fire from the hill, the Maru-san charge the Shikaku General\u2019s position. The Shikaku-ichi manage to stall them at the foot of the hill, but the Maru-ichi take advantage of the exposed southern flank of the Shikaku position and storm the hill from there.\n\nAttacked from multiple sides the Shikaku-ichi begin to collapse and the General abandons the camp and flees for the defensive lines of the Shikaku-ni. However, the Maru-ni advance crushes the Shikaku-san in the north and begins to sweep down towards the open end of the Shikaku-ni position, while the rest of the Maru forces begin their advance towards the stream.\n\nThe Shikaku fall back over the bridge, hoping the choke point will let them wear down the enemy, but the Maru forces sweep in from all sides.\n\nThe assault on the bridge begins and while the Shikaku forces put up a brave fight, they are now heavily outnumbered by the Maru attack.\n\nIn an epic clash, the elite shock troops of the Maru-ichi break the bridge defence while the constant fire exchange across the river wears down and eventually breaks several of the Shikaku defenders. With his army broken and troops fleeing the field, the Shikaku general signals the retreat and slinks off the field in disgrace. The day has gone to the Maru, and they have secured control of a vital point between the rival lands.\nThis was a lot of fun as a game, the narrative flowed easily from the mechanics and while there were a few points were I had to tweak bits or come up with rules for things on the fly, it really helped me refine down some of the mechanics, and determine what did and didn\u2019t work.\n\nSummary\nTo conclude, in this post we covered:\n\nCommand and Control: the role of commanders and how the dynamic activation and order system works, as well as the role of messengers on the field.\nMovement: how movement is determined and the different types of movements available.\nCombat: both ranged and melee combat and the opposed roll system they use.\nMorale: how units test for morale and rally from their various states of disorder.\nDiscussed other areas for expansion and thought once core mechanics are settled.\nFinally finished with a pencil and paper test game and report on how it went.\nI\u2019m not sure what my next post on this will be, as the next stage is probably play testing and refinement, then looking at some of the special rules. No doubt you\u2019ll see some Feudal Japanese forces creep into my painting queue in the coming year in 3mm, 6mm and/or 10mm, along with some more test game battle reports.\n\nThoughts and suggestions are always welcome, I\u2019ve only been in the hobby a few years and don\u2019t have that many games under my belt, so any pitfalls or glaring omissions I\u2019d be interested in knowing about, so please share!\n\nAs ever, thanks for reading,\n\nMatthew\n\nShare this:\nTwitterFacebook\n\nRelated\nRules for the Sengoku Jidai: Revamped\nJun 8, 2021\nIn \"Battle Report\"\nRules for the Sengoku Jidai\nOct 11, 2020\nIn \"Feudal Japan\"\nProgress Update \u2013 July 2021\nAug 2, 2021\nIn \"Feudal Japan\"\nTagged 2D Gaming, Feudal Japan, Pencil and Paper, Rulesets, Wargaming\nPost navigation\nPrevious Post\nRules for the Sengoku Jidai\nNext Post\nBattle Report \u2013 Oda vs Asai\n4 thoughts on \u201cRules for the Sengoku Jidai: Core Mechanics\u201d\nPingback: Battle Report \u2013 Oda vs Asai \u2013 Wisely lead\u2026 without a head!\nPingback: Progress Update \u2013 March 2021 \u2013 Wisely lead\u2026 without a head!\nMr David Ford\nOct 19, 2021 at 6:07 pm\nGreat Stuff \ud83d\ude42\n\nLike\n\nReply\nmmcv\nOct 20, 2021 at 10:08 am\nThanks David, I have revised some of these since this post, some of which is included in this post: https://mmcvhistory.home.blog/2021/06/08/rules-for-the-sengoku-jidai-revamped/\n\nWhich is why some of the bits here are a little different from what we had been chatting about elsewhere. The primary change is the combination of Morale, Fatigue and Ranged Combat into a single Fatigue/Loyalty mechanic.\n\nLike\n\nReply\nLeave a comment\nTop Posts & Pages\nA Very British Civil War in Ireland\nIs it an eagle? Is it a jaguar? No...\nBattle Report - The Battle of Dorylaeum (1097)\nRules for the Sengoku Jidai: Core Mechanics\nAVNICW Faction: The Loyal Democratic State of Northern Ireland\nCategories\nBattle Report (22)\nGeneral (12)\nHistory (6)\nCrusades (5)\nPeriods & Projects (57)\n2D Armies (3)\nAncient China (8)\nBronze Age (9)\nClassical Period (7)\nColonial (3)\nEarly 20th Century (7)\nFantasy (2)\nFeudal Japan (15)\nLate 19th Century (3)\nMedieval (14)\nPike & Shot (11)\nPre-Columbian America (10)\nTerrain (3)\nProgress update (28)\nRulesets (13)\nTags\n2D Gaming 2mm 10mm Ancient China AVBCW AWI Battle Board Battle Report BBB Bronze Age Celts Chu Classical Period Crusaders Early 20th Century English Civil War Factions Fantasy Feudal Japan Flippant History General Great War Greeks Han History Introduction Irish History Late 19th Century Medieval Miniatures Napoleonics Pencil and Paper Pre-Columbian America Qin Reflections Romans Rulesets Saracens Shadow of the Eagles Sharp Practice Ships Showcase Skirmish Games Soldiers of God Tarascans Terrain TooFatLardies To the Strongest Trojan War Turks Twilight of Divine Right Twilight of the Sun King Wargaming Zombicide\nBlogs I Follow\nwe all have our roles to play\nBogenwald\nCooking Without Limits\nA Sincere Love of Food\nWARdROBE Plays WWII\nMark A. Morin\nSkarloc\u00b4s\nTENKA FUBU\n\nFollow Blog via E-mail\nEnter your e-mail address to follow this blog and receive notifications of new posts by e-mail.\n\nEmail Address:\nEmail Address\n\nFollow\n\nBlog at WordPress.com.Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information\nPrivacy & Cookies: This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this website, you agree to their use.\nTo find out more, including how to control cookies, see here: Cookie Policy\nDesign a site like this with WordPress.com\nGet started\nAssistant: Creating a list of Sengoku Era samurai troop units for your For Honor roleplay Discord server can help enhance the realism and immersion for your mass combat scenarios. Here's a list of potential troop units you can consider, tailored to fit a gun-free setting:\n\n### Infantry Units\n1. **Yari Ashigaru** - Foot soldiers armed with long spears; form the backbone of the army.\n2. **Naginata Ashigaru** - Infantry wielding polearms, versatile in both offense and defense.\n3. **Katana Ashigaru** - Swordsmen serving as support troops, skilled in melee combat.\n\n### Samurai Units\n1. **Yari Samurai** - Elite spear-wielding troops, superior to Ashigaru in skill and armor.\n2. **Katana Samurai** - Highly skilled swordsmen, forming the core of offensive charges.\n3. **Naginata Samurai** - Versatile warriors wielding the naginata, capable against cavalry and infantry alike.\n4. **Ronin** - Masterless samurai, often mercenaries, who can be hired for their unique skills.\n\n### Cavalry Units\n1. **Takeda Cavalry** - Elite horsemen known for their speed and powerful charges with yari.\n2. **Mounted Samurai** - Skilled horseback warriors, even more deadly when charging with katana or naginata.\n3. **Bow Cavalry** - Mounted archers skilled in hit-and-run tactics, using yumi (bows) from horseback.\n\n### Archer Units\n1. **Yumi Ashigaru** - Foot archers forming ranged support, helping soften enemy troops.\n2. **Bow Samurai** - Elite archers with superior skill and equipment compared to Ashigaru.\n3. **Kyudo Masters** - Samurai dedicated to the way of the bow, providing precise and powerful ranged attacks.\n\n### Specialist Units\n1. **Sohei (Warrior Monks)** - Religious warriors skilled in martial arts and naginata.\n2. **Onna-Bugeisha** - Female warriors trained in the use of the naginata and bow.\n3. **Kunoichi (Female Ninjas)** - Specialists in espionage and guerrilla tactics, capable of sabotage.\n\n### Support Units\n1. **Standard Bearers** - Carry the clan's banner, boosting morale and organization.\n2. **Drummers** - Keep rhythm to coordinate troop movements and boost morale.\n3. **Strategists** - Advisors skilled in planning and executing battlefield strategies.\n\n### Unique Units\n1. **Hatamoto** - The personal guard of generals and commanders, elite bodyguards.\n2. **Champion Duelists** - Expert swordsmen available for challenges and duels on the battlefield.\n3. **Berserkers** - Warriors who enter frenzied states, unstoppable in close combat until exhausted.\n\nThese units can be used to create engaging and dynamic mass combat scenarios that reflect the diversity and strategy of Sengoku Era warfare without relying on firearms. Adjust details according to any specific game mechanics or lore within your For Honor roleplay setting.\nUser: Expand the list, and remove any gun units. Make it for honor fitting too (keeping immersive aspect): \n\nTotal War Wiki\nTotal War Wiki\nExplore\nTroy\nThree Kingdoms\nHistorical Games\nSpin-offs\n FANDOM\nFan Central\nBETA\nGames\nAnime\nMovies\nTV\nVideo\nWikis\nStart a Wiki\nSign In\nRegister\nTotal War Wiki\nTotal War Wiki\n5,228\npages\nExplore\nTroy\nThree Kingdoms\nHistorical Games\nSpin-offs\n\nin: Total War: Shogun 2 cavalry\nYari Cavalry (Total War: Shogun 2)\nEdit\nFor the Shogun: Total War unit, see Yari Cavalry (Shogun: Total War).\n\nYari Cavalry S2TW Icon\n\nYari Cavalry\nYari Cavalry S2TW\nAppears in\nTotal War: Shogun 2\nBelongs to\nMost factions\nType\nSpear Cavalry\nSoldiers per unit\n20/40/60/80\nAttack skill\n5\nCharge bonus\n25\nAnti-cavalry skill\n15\nArmour\n4 (Mounted)/4 (Dismounted)\nDefense skill\n1\nMorale\n10\nProduced from\nWarhorse Stables, Yari Drill Yard\nSpecial abilities\nWedge Formation\nCost\n800 SP/850 MP\nUpkeep\n200\nTurns to train\n2\nUnit cap\nNone\nYari Cavalry are a type of yari cavalry in Total War: Shogun 2.\n\nDescription\nEach yari cavalry samurai is armed with a long spear that makes him particularly deadly when swiftly charging into combat.\n\nYari cavalry focus all the power of their fearsome charge into the points of the long spears they carry as they smash into enemy cavalry and infantry alike. Their high morale spurs them into battle and keeps them from routing, even when engaged in melee, where their spears are at a disadvantage. Yari cavalry are best used to attack the rear or flanks of infantry to avoid spear counter-attacks and getting caught in messy, close-quarters fighting. Their amazing speed over the ground makes this entirely possible, as they can rarely be caught even by other cavalry units.\n\nDuring the Sengoku Jidai, the spear and sword superseded the bow as the weapons of choice for samurai cavalry. Despite a long tradition of mounted archery, a bow could not be used in melee, leaving cavalry archers vulnerable to counter-attacks by foot soldiers. Spears, on the other hand, could be used to break enemy defences in a full charge, or used in quick, slashing strokes whilst in close combat. Swords could be used to cut an enemy down, but obviously lacked the range of a bow, or spear. However, if a samurai was wealthy enough, he would have an attendant to carry and hand him his bow, spear or sword, depending on the situation and personal preference.\n\nStrengths & Weaknesses\n\nFast and very good charge.\nGood against other cavalry.\nWeak in prolonged melee.\nVulnerable to yari and naginata units in melee.\nGeneral Information\nYari Cavalry are mid-late game cavalry, boasting a powerful charge bonus but only average melee stats. They replace light cavalry, being superior in nearly every way but at the cost of higher upkeep and recruitment costs. Their anti-cavalry bonus and high speed make them excellent for hunting down enemy cavalry, and their high charge bonus allow them to disrupt enemy formations with ease. However, like all cavalry, they are weak to anti-cavalry infantry, and are also highly susceptible to ranged attacks, particularly Fire Rockets. \n\nTwo units of yari cavalry, along with a unit of Great Guard, are granted to any faction that becomes Shogun. This includes the Ikko Ikki, who normally don't have access to yari cavalry.\n\nWhen trained by the Date Clan, Yari Cavalry have +2 charge bonus.\n\nTakeda Yari Cavalry are cheaper to train and maintain (at 700/175 instead of 800/200), have +2 morale, +3 melee attack, +1 melee defence, and +5 charge bonus. They are slightly worse than Takeda Fire Cavalry in almost every way, but have a better charge bonus.\n\nTotal War: Shogun 2 Cavalry\nSpear Cavalry\tGreat Guard \u2022 Light Cavalry \u2022 Takeda Fire Cavalry \u2022 The Spears of Shizugatake \u2022 Yari Cavalry \u2022 Yari Dojo Cavalry\nPolearm Cavalry\tNaginata Warrior Monk Cavalry\nSword Cavalry\tGeneral \u2022 Katana Cavalry \u2022 Kiyomasa\u2019s Katana Cavalry\nMissile Cavalry\tBow Cavalry \u2022 Donderbuss Cavalry \u2022 Tokugawa Mounted Gunners \u2022 Yoritomo\u2019s Yabusame Cavalry\nCategories\nCategories:Total War: Shogun 2 cavalryAdd category\nCommunity content is available under CC-BY-SA unless otherwise noted.\nCommunity Chat\n9 Users Online\nUsers\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nJoin Now!\nOthers Like You Also Viewed\nLight Cavalry (Total War: Shogun 2)\nLight Cavalry (Total War: Shogun 2)\nTakeda Fire Cavalry\nTakeda Fire Cavalry\nNaginata Warrior Monk Cavalry\nNaginata Warrior Monk Cavalry\nKatana Cavalry\nKatana Cavalry\nNaginata Warrior Monks (Total War: Shogun 2)\nNaginata Warrior Monks (Total War: Shogun 2)\nDonderbuss Cavalry\nDonderbuss Cavalry\nKiyomasa\u2019s Katana Cavalry\nKiyomasa\u2019s Katana Cavalry\nYari Ashigaru (Total War: Shogun 2)\nYari Ashigaru (Total War: Shogun 2)\nBenkei\u2019s Blades\nBenkei\u2019s Blades\n\nPopular Pages\nFactions (Total War: Three Kingdoms)\nFactions (Total War: Three Kingdoms)\nFall of the Samurai\nFall of the Samurai\nTotal War: Three Kingdoms\nTotal War: Three Kingdoms\nTraits (Total War: Three Kingdoms)\nTraits (Total War: Three Kingdoms)\nTotal War: Shogun 2\nTotal War: Shogun 2\nFandom logo\nExplore properties\nFandom\nMuthead\nFanatical\nFollow Us\nOverview\nWhat is Fandom?\nAbout\nCareers\nPress\nContact\nTerms of Use\nPrivacy Policy\nDigital Services Act\nGlobal Sitemap\nLocal Sitemap\nCommunity\nCommunity Central\nSupport\nHelp\nDo Not Sell or Share My Personal Information\nAdvertise\nMedia Kit\nContact\nFandom Apps\nTake your favorite fandoms with you and never miss a beat.\nFandom App logo\nStore icon\nStore icon\nTotal War Wiki is a FANDOM Games Community.\nView Mobile Site\nFollow on IG\nTikTok\nJoin Fan Lab\nCheck out Fandom Quizzes and cha\nSearch this wiki\nSearch all wikis\nAssistant: Here's an expanded and immersive list of Sengoku Era samurai troop units suitable for a For Honor roleplay setting, ensuring no gunpowder weapons are included:\n\n### Infantry Units\n1. **Yari Ashigaru** - Basic spear infantry, well-suited for forming spear walls and ranked formations.\n2. **Naginata Ashigaru** - Versatile polearm infantry capable of defending against both cavalry and infantry.\n3. **Katana Ashigaru** - Skilled in close-quarters combat, offering flexibility on the battlefield.\n\n### Samurai Units\n1. **Yari Samurai** - Elite warriors known for their mastery of the spear, excelling in organized combat.\n2. **Katana Samurai** - Highly skilled with swords, forming the offensive forefront of any army.\n3. **Naginata Samurai** - Balanced fighters capable of both offense and defense, adept against cavalry charges.\n4. **Ronin** - Masterless samurai with unpredictable fighting skills, available for hire or rebellion.\n5. **Dual Wield Samurai** - Samurai proficient in wielding two swords, offering greater attack flexibility.\n\n### Cavalry Units\n1. **Yari Cavalry** - Fast-moving spear cavalry, perfect for flanking maneuvers and pursuing fleeing enemies.\n2. **Katana Cavalry** - Mounted swordsmen skilled in slashing down opponents in fast charges.\n3. **Takeda Cavalry** - Renowned for their speed and discipline, often leading devastating charges.\n4. **Mounted Samurai** - Expert horsemen, combining mobility with the deadly efficiency of a samurai's skill.\n\n### Archer Units\n1. **Yumi Ashigaru** - Infantry archers providing essential ranged support for large formations.\n2. **Bow Samurai** - Elite archers with greater range and accuracy, capable of precision strikes.\n3. **Kyudo Masters** - Expert bow users who are revered for their discipline and shooting accuracy.\n\n### Specialist Units\n1. **Sohei (Warrior Monks)** - Religious warriors with spiritual ferocity, skilled in hand-to-hand combat and naginata use.\n2. **Onna-Bugeisha** - Female samurai trained in martial arts and weaponry, offering unique strategic capabilities.\n3. **Battlefield Tacticians** - Provide strategic maneuvers and battlefield insights, enhancing the effectiveness of allied units.\n\n### Support Units\n1. **Standard Bearers** - Bolster the morale and organization of troops with the clan's emblem.\n2. **Drummers** - Coordinate troop movements and elevate combat spirit through rhythm.\n3. **Strategists** - Masters of battlefield tactics, aiding in the planning and execution of complex maneuvers.\n\n### Unique Units\n1. **Hatamoto** - Elite bodyguards of high-ranking officials, unswervingly loyal and fiercely protective.\n2. **Champion Duelists** - Experts in one-on-one combat, challenging enemy leaders and inspiring allies.\n3. **Berserkers** - Possessed by a fierce fighting spirit, causing chaos in the enemy ranks.\n\n### Siege Units\n1. **Siege Engineers** - Specialists in constructing and dismantling fortifications during castle sieges.\n2. **Logistical Support Teams** - Ensure the supply lines remain intact and the army stays well-fed and ready.\n\nThis list emphasizes the traditional aspects of Sengoku period warfare, focusing on melee and cavalry tactics, as well as the strategic deployment of troops. It aligns well with the immersive, close-combat focus typical of a For Honor-style setting.\nUser: Can you possibly also make better names for some of the units instead of just weapon_type \"samurai/ashigaru,\" for the fhu.\nUser: Not like that, keep it realistic and immersive and japanese sengoku.\nAssistant:"},{"assistant_initiates":false,"asst_text":"Certainly! Here are revised, immersive and realistic Japanese-themed names for the Sengoku Era units in a For Honor roleplay setting:\n\n### Infantry Units\n1. **Ashigaru Yari-tai (Spear Footmen)** - The backbone of armies, maintaining formations with their spears.\n2. **Ashigaru Naginata-tai (Polearm Footmen)** - Versatile infantry, proficient with the naginata.\n3. **Kachi-tai (Foot Soldiers)** - Infantry equipped with katanas, skilled in close combat.\n\n### Samurai Units\n1. **Yari Bushi (Spear Samurai)** - Elite spear-wielding warriors known for their discipline and skill.\n2. **Katana Bushi (Sword Samurai)** - Master swordsmen who lead frontal assaults.\n3. **Naginata Bushi (Polearm Samurai)** - Skilled in defense and offense, using their reach to great advantage.\n4. **Ronin (Masterless Samurai)** - Samurai without a lord, often serving as mercenaries or rebels.\n\n### Cavalry Units\n1. **Yari Kiba-tai (Spear Cavalry)** - Mounted troops known for their swift and decisive spear charges.\n2. **Katana Kiba-tai (Sword Cavalry)** - Horsemen who cut through enemy lines with precision.\n3. **Takeda no Kiba (Takeda Cavalry)** - Famous for their speed and powerful cavalry tactics.\n\n### Archer Units\n1. **Yumi Ashigaru-tai (Bow Footmen)** - Infantry archers providing essential support with longbows.\n2. **Kyudo Bushi (Bow Samurai)** - Highly skilled archers with a focus on precision and technique.\n3. **Yabusame Bushi (Mounted Archers)** - Traditional mounted archers, blending mobility with archery skill.\n\n### Specialist Units\n1. **Sohei (Warrior Monks)** - Devout warriors of temples, known for their martial prowess.\n2. **Onna-Bugeisha (Female Warriors)** - Female samurai trained in the use of naginata and bow.\n3. **Tactician Sensei (Battlefield Advisors)** - Skilled strategists enhancing the unit\u2019s effectiveness.\n\n### Support Units\n1. **Jinba-taisho (Standard Bearers)** - Keep morale high with the prominent display of the clan's banner.\n2. **Taiko-tai (Drummers)** - Set the rhythm for troop movements and boost morale with their beats.\n3. **Gunshi (Military Strategists)** - Knowledgeable in strategy, guiding the army with their plans.\n\n### Unique Units\n1. **Hatamoto (Banner Retainers)** - Elite bodyguards serving the highest-ranking samurai.\n2. **Kengou (Sword Masters)** - Renowned duelists who challenge enemy leaders for honor and morale.\n3. **Kosei (Fervent Warriors)** - Warriors filled with fervor, breaking enemy lines with raw power.\n\n### Siege Units\n1. **Kumitsuke-tai (Siege Experts)** - Specialists tasked with besieging and capturing enemy fortifications.\n2. **Hikitate-tai (Supply Corps)** - Keep the supply lines running smoothly to ensure the army's strength.\n\nThese names are designed to fit the cultural and historical context of the Sengoku period while maintaining a focus on realism and immersion within your roleplay server.","behavior":"degenerate_repetition","conversation_hash":"9df6f6b45daed97ddc19dbea5ff3de5e","conversation_redacted":true,"conversation_toxic":false,"country":"Brazil","empty_output":false,"evidence_codes":[],"label":"absent","label_present":false,"label_qualified":false,"label_source":"Final dense release","language":"English","model":"gpt-4o-2024-08-06","n_chars":69730,"n_turns_in_conversation":1,"n_words":11681,"source_row_offset":3655,"source_shard":"turns-00039.parquet","timestamp":"Fri, 25 Oct 2024 02:25:48 GMT","turn_id":"713f6544f7f67752c42199ae","turn_index":0,"user_text":"User: sengoku era samurai troop unit ideas list for my discord for honor roleplay mass combat server (no guns to stay realistic for for honor):\n\nnotes: \n\n\nThe Miniatures Page logo\n\"Are there any rulesets that work at \"contingent\" level?\" Topic\n22 Posts\nAll members in good standing are free to post here. Opinions expressed here are solely those of the posters, and have not been cleared with nor are they endorsed by The Miniatures Page.\n\nPlease do not post offers to buy and sell on the main forum.\n\nFor more information, see the TMP FAQ.\n\nBack to the Classical Asian Warfare Message Board\n\nAreas of Interest\nAncients\nMedieval\nRenaissance\nFeatured Hobby News Article\nLancashire Games: Pre-Release Offer Ending in Days\nWellington in India\n\nFeatured Link\nDark & Feudal Ages at Alicante 2022\n\n\nFeatured Ruleset\nAthena Wargames Rules: The English Civil Wars, The Thirty Years War\nAthena Wargames Rules: The English Civil Wars, The Thirty Years War\nRating: gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star \n\nFeatured Showcase Article\nSumerian Chariots in 6mm\nSumerian regular chariot stand\nRemember back in 2005, when I promised pictures of those Sumerian chariot stands in 6mm?\n\nFeatured Profile Article\nRubbery Dinos at the Dollar Store\nDinosaur\nGet these inexpensive dinos while you can.\n\nFeatured Book Review\nThe Savage Garden\nThe Savage Garden\n\n2,277 hits since 7 Feb 2016\n\u00a91994-2024 Bill Armintrout\nComments or corrections?\n\ndddd99\t07 Feb 2016 8:02 p.m. PST\nHi All,\n\nThe more I read about Sengoku Jidai warfare the more I see it is a mixed unit affair with the lower level troops attached to their feudal master. So a Hojo retainer in the 1570s, for example, might command something like 500-800 troops. These troops fought for him, in close proximity to him.\n\nIt was not until later that infantry organization changed in Japan and teppo ashigaru were \"pooled\" with other teppo ashigaru from other lords to fight in an organized teppo \"unit\", for example.\n\nSo what I am interested in is ANY rules that reflect this; it does not necessarily need to be Sengoku rules that you recommend. I have heard people on this forum describe Feudal Japanese warfare as similar to War of the Roses style warfare, but I also wonder are there more examples of this \"mixed\" style of warfare?\n\nBasically, I am interested in any rule treatment that somehow incorporates this information instead of just turning all \"ancient\" / \"feudal\" warfare into pristine roman unit warfare. Hopefully that last statement won't be misinterpreted; I am at a loss of words to describe this \"mixed\" unit syle of warfare.\n\nI realize that Killer Katanas 2 could cover this period, but to do some of these larger battles you would require a large table. Are there any rulesets that work for people interested in basing mixed units: foot samurai, mounted samurai, and ashigaru with all their different weapons on one base (think of diorama style bases)?\n\nadvocate Supporting Member of TMP\t08 Feb 2016 12:17 a.m. PST\nA diorama style base woulds suit games like Sword & Spear or Impetus. I don't know if either currently have lists. However, they also have standard-sized units, and I wonder if that is what you need, or whether you want different sizes to reflect different contingents.\n\nsetsuko\t08 Feb 2016 12:43 a.m. PST\nI agree that it sounds like you're looking for something like Impetus. If you go for a smaller scale, like 6mm or 10mm, it's easy to mix and match different types on the same base.\n\nI based my troops for DBA and FoG, on just 40mm wide bases, but I could still cram in a few infantrymen on my cavalry bases:\n\n\nThat way, even though you count the base as \"cavalry\" or \"archers\", you can represent them as more mixed, historical units.\n\nIf you go with a ruleset with even larger bases, you can do more impressive stuff, like these:\n\n\nJim Louttit based these on 3 inch square bases, and you can find more examples here:\n\nlink\n\nMike O\t08 Feb 2016 4:19 a.m. PST\nThe free set \"A Coat of Steel\" from Perfect Captain are mixed contingent rules for the Wars of the Roses which I always thought would be very appropriate for adaption to samurai warfare (including pre Sengoku periods). It uses some novel mechanics to prevent it becoming a boring scrum.\n\nlink\n\nRabelais\t08 Feb 2016 6:08 a.m. PST\nI was thinking of converting ACOS myself for Sengoku samurai, but I was put off by the amount of work involved with changing the cards and other playing aids. But it's the best existing template that I'm aware of.\n\nAt the moment we're trying out a conversion of the Great Battles in History board game 'Ran,' using squares instead of hexes. Alternatively, you could use tape measurements, I guess. In Ran, the 'counters' are still single troop types, but a contingent can be made up of 8-10 bases, so there's more of a feel of a contingent being made up of small units of samurai, ashigaru, guns and cavalry. The problem with Ran is that it's a bit costly and hard to get hold of.\n\nRabelais\t08 Feb 2016 7:16 a.m. PST\nI also thought it may be possible to modify Peter Pig's 'Battles in the Age of War' rules. They already allow you to mix ashigaru spears, bows and guns in the same unit, but all samurai are grouped separately, and have their own morale class.\n\nI think it would be possible to mix samurai and ashigaru together and use the appropriate morale class depending on the percentage of samurai remaining in the unit. AFAIK mixing samurai and ashigaru like this wouldn't impact the melee rules.\n\nPersonal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP\t08 Feb 2016 8:08 a.m. PST\nTaiko! will do what you want. Figures are nominally based individually, and the armies are built around sub-commanders. You'd just need to tweak the lists where you want.\n\nlink\n\nmad monkey 1\t08 Feb 2016 9:04 a.m. PST\nTry these if you can get a hold of them:\nlink\n\ngamedad25\t08 Feb 2016 10:00 a.m. PST\nContact <PRESIDIO_ANONYMIZED_EMAIL_ADDRESS> for Chrysanthemum Throne pdf.\n\nI believe they are sold in a bundle with Age of Gunpowder and Le Petit Empereur for $15.00 USD usd.\n\nBelgianRay\t08 Feb 2016 1:55 p.m. PST\nI agree totally with Extra Crispy : go for Taiko. No way around it.\n\ndddd99\t08 Feb 2016 6:49 p.m. PST\nHi All,\n\nThanks for all the responses. I already own Taiko!, Killer Katanas, Impetus, and Sword and Spear. I have 6mm figures: Irregular as well as Baccus (I do not usually mix them). I once attempted to buy Chrysanthemum Throne, but that company closed their internet presence a week before I went to buy them ahah. I think I may email Chipco, based on gamedad25's post above; thanks. I would love to buy BAW, but I would really enjoy a cheaper price or a pdf version since I am not sure it is what I am looking for.\n\nAll of the rules mentioned above I am not sure will suffice for me. I have researched so much Japanese feudal warfare over the past year or so that I have decided to write my own. That was why I was looking for other examples of \"contingent\" warfare.\n\nHere are some responses to the above posts:\n\nadvocate \u2013 I have already played some samurai battles using lists I created for Sword and Spear. What can I say I love Sword and Spear, but it does segregate figures into \"units\". By the way I highly respect Impetus as well but I find S&S more enjoyable; but they are both top notch.\n\nsetsuko \u2013 your work on yr 6mm Baccus is amazing. I have always admired them and have seen them before in prior posts. = ) in fact your images are why I decided to buy Baccus. and I have seen Jim L's work before too. Simply amazing. In fact, his diorama bases are what led me to developing my own \"contingent\" based approach; that and playing my new Nobunaga's Ambition game I got off Steam. I found out that Japanese game/sim creators routinely represent these battles using this \"contingent\" based approach.\n\nMikeO & Rabelais \u2013 thanks so much for the idea to recommend ACOS. I am reading thru it now. = ) Very good stuff so far. Lots of ideas.\n\nExtra Crispy \u2013 I do enjoy Taiko! rules and am very happy to have them in my collection. Ihave said before and will say it again they are definitely worth the purchase. Not too expensive, pdf download and instant gratification.\n\nLike I said, thanks for all the informative and interesting responses, all. Now I am off to read some ACOS and maybe to work on my rules. Best wishes.\n\nLion in the Stars\t09 Feb 2016 11:49 a.m. PST\nI was under the impression that even a low-ranking commander would divide his troops into single-weapon squads of Spearmen, Archers, and Teppo.\n\nThe Ashigaru teppo squads appear to be mixed with ~3-5 teppo and 2-4 bows, with the archers shooting to protect the gunners while they reloaded.\n\nEValerio has some great illustrations that he based on the Takeda Screens, thread is here on TMP: TMP link\n\nI guess the real question is, what figure compression are you running? If you're modeling at something like 1:30, then I'd use a squad stand to represent a company. But if you're using 6mm figures, you could go nuts and model things 1:1 for a not-unreasonable cost.\n\ndddd99\t09 Feb 2016 9:26 p.m. PST\nLion,\n\nI am familiar with EValerio's work. It is top notch.\n\nI believe he has stated before that the Kawanakajima Kassen Byobu screens were influential in his illustrations:\n\n\nI believe these types of formations are referred to as sonae. They are usually 300-800 men. As you can see there are mounted troops and foot troops as well as archers and gunners.\n\nThe issue in my opinion is when you play a game, take impetus for example, its bases represent 300-1200 men depending on the circumstances/troop type. So this seems incompatible with Evalerio's illustrations. If I were to wish to represent his illustration, which I actually do, then one of his illustrations is say 500 men +/-. If 50% of those are ashigaru wielding infantry weapons like nagae yari or whatever, and 20% are an ahshigaru mixture of missile troops (teppo/yumi \u2013 these ratios evolved throughout the sengoku toward more heavy on the gunners). That's about 70% ashigaru. That leaves about 30% of what people refer to as the samurai (I realize this line between samurai/ashigaru definitely became increasingly blurred as the sengoku went on) \u2013 some are mounted some on foot.\n\nTo give a real world example I bought some 6mm Irregular samurai range (I have lots of Baccus as well =-) ). I played it with Sword and Spear rules (which I have high respect for). As some of you may know the figures came in strips and therefore I could not cut apart as you can with Baccus. So I ended up with a base of samurai on foot charging a base of yumi ashigaru for example. If each base were like 300 men it makes this seem odd and not how I now picture samurai warfare.\n\nSo I am saying maybe make a game where we use EValerio's nice illustrations as a template and maybe represent them on the tabletop as Jim Louttit's bases that setsuko has shown above. I dunno to me that'd seem like a sweet game. Maybe I am wrong.\n\nSo thanks for the reply, Lion. To answer your question about figure compression\u2026. I dunno my thoughts above maybe give a rough draft of that\u2026 hopefully. To be honest I have not based my Baccus 6mm yet and I want to make sure I do it right so I am leaning toward Jim Louttit style basing and I need rules to accommodate that. Tall order I know. hahah. take care.\n\nsetsuko\t10 Feb 2016 2:42 a.m. PST\nThinking of it, you could look at games that are even more \"zoomed out\", like Bl\u00fccher. A lot of the time when I read about campaigns in the period, the commanders focus much more on the issues that Bl\u00fccher deals with (getting your divisions to the right place, marching orders, scouting, surprise attacks, choosing a favourable battlefield) than \"this unit of spearmen charges into this unit of spearmen\".\n\nWe're planning to try out Bl\u00fccher at the club once we've painted up enough 6mm napoleonics, and maybe after that I know more about how easy it would be to convert to 16th century Japan. And basing and unit composition would be far less important when you're \"units\" represents a corps.\n\nBut I agree, it's very hard not to feel like you're constantly trying to fit a square peg through a round hole when looking at army sized tabletop games in this period.\n\nRabelais\t10 Feb 2016 3:50 a.m. PST\nThe precursor to the GBOH board game 'Ran,' called 'Samurai,' had 4 troop types: cavalry, infantry, bows and teppo. The latter two were treated as lighter units. For the later Sengoku period, a mechanism was introduced whereby all infantry could fire as teppo to represent the greater proportion of guns being used. There was no distinction between 'ashigaru' and 'samurai' infantry. I'm led to believe that such a distinction is rarely made in Japanese boardgames of the period either.\n\nThe rules are a free download here:\n\ngmtgames.com/p-169-samurai.aspx\n\nNow, I'm not sure whether it's infringing copyright, but there are scans of the playsheets on the Board Game Geek page for the game, too.\n\n\nAnyway, the rules are maybe worth looking at. I still feel a conversion of ACOS would work well, particularly if you use the system of counters from the ACOP campaign game to build your contingents. But it's too much work for me at the moment. I'd love to see any progress you make with it, however.\n\nLion in the Stars\t10 Feb 2016 8:06 p.m. PST\nI think I'd have to give every unit a shooting attack of some level at the stand=500men level of representation.\n\nJust lump it all together, and assume that the clan commander will make whatever formation changes are necessary.\n\nThen again, I'm pretty much a pure 1:1 gamer, so army level battles aren't something I do very often.\n\ndddd99\t11 Feb 2016 8:36 p.m. PST\nSetsuko & Rabelais thanks so much for the replies. I have been reading about Bl\u00fccher lately. Yes I think the \"zoomed out\" approach is more what I am going for. Not that I have anything against a smaller approach; I just do not think that many rules and basing systems achieve a historically accurate experience. In other words, if you look at the Kawanakajima Kassen Byobu screens or an EValerio illustration -- I have never seen that represented on the tabletop satisfactorily. It would require quite a large tabletop to achieve that with the individual unit approach.\n\nSo Lion, a 1:1 representation would prohibit you from simulating some of the medium and larger sengoku battles. I think you're all right with that though; It is just what you prefer. But if you invited me to a game of 1:1 and it involved samurai I would definitely accept and be happy for the game =-) . And your comment about giving each unit at the stand=500men level of representation a shooting attack is something I have already done in my humble homebrew rules. I think it is a must in that case.\n\nRabelais, I am definitely paging thru ACOS. And if I do make any progress I will try to update. And also thanks for the samurai rules link. I downloaded them and read thru them briefly at quiet points in my day.\n\nSo again, thanks for the comments. It has been enlightening for me to get so many good recommendations and exposure to other good rulesets. Take care and best wishes.\n\nRabelais\t17 Apr 2016 4:50 a.m. PST\nWe finally got round to trying 'Ran' on the tabletop. It worked well, all thing considered. Each 'clan' can have around 10-20 'units' so there is more of a feel of a clan being composed of small contingents than other sets.\n\nAnyway, thoughts and report are here:\nwargamesasp.wordpress.com/2016/04/17/ran\n\nMike O\t18 Apr 2016 2:07 p.m. PST\nGreat report there, Rabelais, lots of food for thought. I own the original \"Samurai\" boardgame but not \"Ran\" \u2013 just curious, in general terms, if there were many changes in the CRT and other charts between the two?\n\nWulfgar\t18 Apr 2016 8:56 p.m. PST\nWell done, Rabelais. Using the rules from the \"Ran\" boardgame is inspired.\n\nHopefully there are more copies out there. I just bought the last copy of GMT's \"Samurai\" from Fine Games through Amazon. I think that Noble Knight Games still has a copy or two of \"Ran,\" but its getting into collector's item prices. About $119 USD or so, I think.\n\nHowever, The rules can still be downloaded for free through the GMT website, so actually purchasing the actual games might not be necessary.\n\nFor myself, I stumbled across \"Irregular Wars,\" which provides a similar game, but without all of the markers cluttering things up. I've been very happy with being able to play battles between small clans, and the table top looks much like the one in your photos.\n\nIrregular Wars can be perused at this link from the author, Nicholas Wright:\n\nirregularwars.blogspot.com\n\nIrregular Wars provide lists for the earlier Muromachi period, the Sengoku Jidai, the Ikko Ikki and Sohei, the Ming, the Manchurians, and the Joseon Koreans.\n\nRabelais\t19 Apr 2016 2:10 a.m. PST\n@MikeO\n\nAs far as I can tell the CRT and other tables are exactly the same. However, the combat numbers are different due to the extra number of troop types. 'Ran' is a more streamlined set of rules than 'Samurai' IMO, but you should be able to continue to play 'Samurai' and use whichever changes you like from the 'Ran' rules without too much trouble.\n\nWe played 'Samurai' first and I liked that they had one infantry class rather than splitting samurai and ashigaru (which is apparently the norm among Japanese board games). Overall I think 'Ran' is an improvement but 'Samurai' works fine too.\n\nRabelais\t19 Apr 2016 2:17 a.m. PST\n@Wulfgar\n\nThanks for that, another set to check out!\n\nSorry - only verified members can post on the forums.\n\nRadious Mods Wiki\nExplore\nWiki Content\nCommunity\n FANDOM\nFan Central\nBETA\nGames\nAnime\nMovies\nTV\nVideo\nWikis\nStart a Wiki\nSign In\nRegister\nRadious Mods Wiki\n50\npages\nExplore\nWiki Content\nCommunity\n\n\nUnit Pack 2 -- Sengoku Jidai Campaign\nView source\nS2 unit pack 2\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nLink to the original thread posted on Total War Center forums (This is where you can find download links)\n\nThe second unit pack released by Radious adds 38 brand new units to the original Shogun 2 campaign making it one of the largest mods of its kind. This mod is fully compatible with all of Shogun 2's dlc's and *should* work alongside any other mods that add custom units to the game. Note: This only adds units to the default campaign and custom battles. It will not work on MP unless both parties have the mod installed.\n\nRadious published two other unit packs that correspond with the other two dlc campaigns (click to navigate to their respective pages):\n\nUnit Pack 1 -- Rise of the Samurai Campaign\nUnit Pack 3 -- Fall of the Samurai Campaign\n\nTo see specific stats and pictures of units added by this pack simply click the name of the unit you wish to view:\n\n\nContents\n1\tBow/Matchlock Units (Misc.)                                                           \n2\tCavalry\n3\tNinjas\n4\tOnna Bushi (Female Warriors)\n5\tPirates\n6\tPortuguese Tercos\n7\tSamurai\n8\tWarrior Monks\nBow/Matchlock Units (Misc.)                                                           \nBow Warrior Nuns\nMatchlock Ronin\nCavalry\nMounted Katana Ashigaru\nMounted Yari Ashigaru\nNaginata Cavalry\nYari Ronin Cavalry\nNinjas\nBow Ninjas\nKatana Ninjas\nMounted Katana Ninjas\nMounted Naginata Ninjas\nNaginata Ninjas\nNinja Hero\nTetsubo Ninjas\nYari Ninjas\nOnna Bushi (Female Warriors)\nElite Onna Bushi\nMounted Onna Bushi\nYari Onna Bushi\nPirates\nBow Pirates\nHeavy Sword Pirates\nKatana Pirates\nMounted Yari Pirates\nNaginata Pirates\nPirate Captain\nTetsubo Pirates\nYari Pirates\nPortuguese Tercos\nMounted Tercos\nPike Tercos\nSabre Tercos\nSamurai\nBow Light Samurai\nHeavy Armored Samurai\nKatana Light Samurai\nMounted Naginata Light SamuraiMounted Naginata Light SamuraiNaginiata Light Samurai\nNaginata Light Samurai\nNodachi Ronin\n<PRESIDIO_ANONYMIZED_PERSON>\nWarrior Monks\nKatana Warrior Monks\nMounted Katana Warrior Monks\nTetsubo Warrior Monks\nCommunity content is available under CC-BY-SA unless otherwise noted.\nPopular Pages\nPike Tercos\nPike Tercos\nUnit Pack 2 -- Sengoku Jidai Campaign\nUnit Pack 2 -- Sengoku Jidai Campaign\nMounted Tercos\nMounted Tercos\nSabre Tercos\nSabre Tercos\nFandom logo\nExplore properties\nFandom\nMuthead\nFanatical\nFollow Us\nOverview\nWhat is Fandom?\nAbout\nCareers\nPress\nContact\nTerms of Use\nPrivacy Policy\nDigital Services Act\nGlobal Sitemap\nLocal Sitemap\nCommunity\nCommunity Central\nSupport\nHelp\nDo Not Sell or Share My Personal Information\nAdvertise\nMedia Kit\nContact\nFandom Apps\nTake your favorite fandoms with you and never miss a beat.\nFandom App logo\nStore icon\nStore icon\nRadious Mods Wiki is a FANDOM Games Community.\nView Mobile Site\nFollow on IG\nTikTok\nJoin Fan Lab\nCheck out Fandom Quizzes and cha\nSearch this wiki\nSearch all wikis\n\nSkip to content\nWisely lead\u2026 without a head!\n\nRules for the Sengoku Jidai: Core Mechanics\nOct 15, 2020 by mmcv, posted in Feudal Japan, Rulesets\nIn my last post I gave a bit of background for my thinking on how a Sonae based Sengoku Jidai ruleset might work and some of my early experiments with it. To recap, the Sengoku Jidai refers to the period of civil war that devastated Japan in and around the 16th century. Armies were generally organised into sub units of mixed arms clans known as Sonae. The terrain of Japan meant warfare tended to favour looser formations and manoeuvre than would typically be seen elsewhere in the world at the time.\n\nFor the moment I\u2019ve settled on \u201chit dice\u201d as my randomisation method, namely rolling 4 dice, adding or removing dice based on situational modifiers, then counting any 6\u2019s as a success. In this post I hope to explore some of the core mechanics I\u2019ve been trying out; command and control, movement, combat and morale.\n\nI am writing these into a more \u201ctechnical\u201d rules document, but wanted to lay out some of the general concepts here. At the end I will have a brief pencil and paper battle report to show how some of the mechanics play out.\n\nCommand and Control\nThis refers to the means in which the players actually command their armies and give orders to commanders and units. There are essentially three levels of command. The first and lowest level is the individual units, typically a mixed arm Sonae, commanded by a Samurai-daisho (military leader) a minor Daimyo (feudal lord). These commanders are abstracted into the units themselves and assumed to be dealing with the individual allocation of troops within the Sonae.\n\nMultiple Sonae will generally be grouped together into a Te, or division. The most senior, and usually most powerful, Sonae within this division, is known as the Honjin (or headquarters Sonae), usually commanded by a senior Daimyo. This Honjin Sonae is the Commander for the entire Te, and is the one from which actions to the individual units will flow.\n\nAn army will generally consist of several of these Te with the leader of the most senior Daimyo\u2019s Te being designated the overall Army General. Unlike the Commanders who are embedded into their Honjin Sonae, the Army General is treated as a stand alone entity based separately to a Sonae, though they will usually have one or more powerful Sonae in their own Te commanded by trusted retainers, usually including a Honjin Sonae with it\u2019s own Commander. Typically there will be one Army General per side, but in large, multiplayer battles, there could potentially be multiple Army Generals, each leading their own set of divisions in coordination with their ally. This can lead to some fun possibilities for betrayal and treachery, as was common in the period.\n\nThese Army Generals may be in one of two states. The first is \u201cEncamped\u201d whereby they are based with their Maku screen and retainers, usually in a prominent but well defended position in the battle field. In this state they have powerful defensive modifiers, can send out messengers to their commanders, but cannot move themselves.\n\nThe second is \u201cMobile\u201d whereby they mount up with their personal unit of bodyguard troops, known as the Hatamoto, and become a powerful unit in their own right with rapid movement but no ability to send out messengers to commanders and a greater chance of personal injury.\n\nThe fourth Battle of Kawanakajima: Takeda Shingen Vs Uesugi Kenshin - by  Dmitry Filatov. | Takeda shingen, Samurai art, Japanese history\nThere is a somewhat fanciful story of the great rivals Uesugi Kenshin and Takeda Shingen engaging in a brief duel when Kenshin, mounted with his Hatamoto personal guard burst into the Takeda camp and engaged an unprepared Shingen, who was forced to defend with his steel war fan until his own Hatamo could drive Kenshin off. While it likely never happened, it does provide a good example of the two different ways Generals can operate.\nGiven the hierarchical clan status of the armies, the loss of a Commander will generally mean the loss of an entire division, and the loss of the Army General will usually spell the loss of the entire battle. So there is a fine balance between using these as powerful offensive units, while keeping them safe from harm at risk of collapsing the army. There is some potential around loyalty and successor mechanics that may mitigate this collapse somewhat, likely a series of Morale tests for the units and a test or special trait that allows a Commander or General to have a worthy successor to take the reigns of battle, but I\u2019ve still to shake out the details on them.\n\nEach commander (including the general) will have an Authority value representing their right to rule and the respect they hold from their retainers. This can be a positive or negative value, depending how powerful or weak they are. This value will be used to modify the number of orders that they can give. The commanders will also have a Command Radius that extends out from their unit, with Authority increasing or decreasing the range. Any units outside this Command Radius may only be given one order per activation. Any units within the General\u2019s Command Radius will gain a bonus to their Morale tests.\n\nAt the beginning of each turn the player will decide if their Army General is Encamped or Mobile. If Encamped then they may designate a Commander to send a messenger to. If both the General and Commander are out of range of any enemy units then this is decided with a simple 4 + Authority d6 check (success on at least one 6). If either is within range of the enemy, the check is opposed and must score more successes than the enemy to succeed. If successful, then that commander can add the general\u2019s Authority along with their own to their next activation. I did briefly toy with having messengers as their own units that travelled across the battlefield, but it became somewhat messy and required remembering which messenger had been directed at which commander. I suspect the messenger rules will undergo further modifications in time, for instance reducing the available dice over longer distances.\n\nActivations are dynamic. For each command a token should be placed in a bag or stack to allow for random activations. Ideally this would be a token with the clans Mon (or symbol) on it, but could equally be coloured dice or chits, a stack of cards, etc. Anything that lets the players randomly allocate command activation. Players will draw a token and whichever general that token belongs to can allocate it to a command within the army. That command then activates and performs its actions, then the next token is drawn and the process repeats. This means play can alternate back and forth between the players, or may result in one player having a run of a few activations then the other player having the same. Each command can only activate once per turn.\n\nKamon Symbols of Japan \u2014 Encyclopedia of Japan\nThe Mon of some of the better known clans in the period, this would appear prominently on banners and screens for the clan\u2019s troops. Some of the clan names in this graphic are non-standard renditions, such as Mouri (Mori) and Houjou (Hojo).\nOnce activated the command rolls a single d6, adding the appropriate Authority modifiers, and that will give the number of orders that can be given that activation. Orders can then be allocated out amongst the units under command to move, engage in combat or rally. There is no limit to the number of orders that each unit can have assigned, up to the total allocated, but those units receiving a large number of orders will have to take a morale test and on failure become fatigued and unable to take any actions the following activation.\n\nOnce all the orders have been allocated, or the player doesn\u2019t wish to allocate any more, the activation ends and the next one is drawn. Once all commands have been activated, the turn ends and the cycle begins again.\n\nMovement\nThis relates to how the units actually manoeuvre around the battlefield. My plan is to keep movement fairly simple. The distance of movement is the same for all units, though certain units will be allowed an extra move such as mounted generals. I\u2019m generally assuming the unit of movement will be around a base width, as that\u2019s usually a decent indicator of unit and table size. Each unit will have a front quarter, a rear quarter and two flank quarters, with the boundaries extending in diagonals from the unit\u2019s corners. When I say something is n Movements, it means n units of whatever the movement distance is. To make a movement a unit will be issued with a Move Order. This will allow them to do one of three things:\n\nMove directly into their forward quarter by up to 2 Movements maintaining facing. This may include charging into contact with an enemy unit.\nFall back into their rear quarter by 1 Movement maintaining facing. If this is given to a unit in combat they must take a Morale check after doing so.\nChange facing to a different quarter and make up to 1 Movement in the new direction of facing. This covers all manoeuvring, whether it be changing facing and remaining in place, or moving in a new direction.\nUnits may be issued any number of Move Orders so long as the commander has Orders to allocate and they begin the orders within the Command Radius of the commander.\n\nTerrain will have some impact on movement, essentially difficult terrain will only allow one Movement forward rather than two and roads allow an extra Movement when going forward or back along it. These rules still need a bit more experimentation. It may be that difficult terrain ends all movement for that unit for that activation and they cannot be given any more Move Orders.\n\nCharging Mounted Samurai\nMassed cavalry charges were rare in Japanese warfare of the period, but small groups of mounted samurai could turn the tide of battle when striking the right place at the right time.\nGiven the fixed distances, the rules as written could be easily translated to a square or hex grid. I\u2019ve been playing out test games on gridded notepaper (mostly because it\u2019s all I have to hand with everything packed away to sell our house) and it\u2019s worked reasonably well, but overall the fluidity of free measurement will provide a much more satisfying range of movement options.\n\nRanged Combat\nThere are two types of combat in the game. The first, and generally less effective, is Ranged Combat. This represents the proportion of bows and guns within a unit. While bows and guns of the period had a theoretical range of 300-500 metres, in reality the effective range against armour was around 50-100 metres. Over time as the proportion of guns increased, firepower became more effective, but was still primarily used as a means of defence, behind screens and fortifications, or for softening up an enemy before the charge into melee for offensive actions.\n\nStandard Ranged Combat will work as an exchange between two units at a range of 2 Movements or less. Most units will have some means of firing, even if its just a few samurai with bows and guns. There will be modifiers available to units, typically ranging from -2 to 2 that can reflect the proportion of guns and firing capacity. In a Ranged Combat exchange, both units will roll their ranged attack dice, hitting on 6s then total up the number of hits inflicted. The default number of attack dice is four, though the modifiers mentioned previously along with a few other special conditions (e.g. firing up a hill would be -1, while firing at close range would be +1) can modify these dice up and down.\n\nAny side that receives at least one hit must make a Morale test, which will be described later but essentially consists of throwing four dice (+/- modifiers) with at least one 6 needed for a pass. For each additional hit past the first one in the Ranged Exchange, a dice is removed from the Morale test. So if a sonae of the Ouchi engages a sonae of the Mori in a ranged attack, both players would roll their attack dice. If the Ouchi rolled three 6s and the Mori rolled one 6, then both sides would be required to take a Morale test, but the Mori would do so with 2 less dice than normal due to the two additional hits.\n\nFailing a Morale test from a ranged attack results in a unit status change. A unit that is fresh and in good spirits will become Wavering, which will somewhat impair their ability to fight in Close Combat. A unit that is already Wavering will become Brittle, which impairs them further still. A unit that is already Brittle will break and be removed from the battle. This means a ranged exchange is unlikely to cause serious damage unless a unit is already in dire straights. There will be a Rally mechanic described later to remove these statuses.\n\nRanged Ashigaru\nMost ranged combat was done by sub units of Ashigaru peasant soldiers armed with matchlock \u201cteppo\u201d guns and light weight long bows known as \u201cyumi\u201d, though samurai would often have guns and bows as their primary weapons well. Indeed the yumi was the traditional primary weapon of samurai in earlier periods before massed peasant infantry and firearms became the norm.\nExceptions to this standard exchange are when engaging from the flank, in which case only half your attack dice can be used, or from the rear, in which case only one attack dice can be used. There is also the possibility of Opportunity Fire, the exact details of which are still under review, but will generally allow a unit to take unopposed pot shots at anyone entering firing range. I\u2019m still not entirely sure on this given the exchange nature of standard firing, it\u2019s mostly a means to prevent units skipping along the front of the enemy without consequence, but I may instead implement some form of Zone of Control on movement that prevents this instead. The other type of firing is Closing Fire, which I\u2019ll cover shortly as part of the Close Combat exchange.\n\nClose Combat\nClose combat consists of up to four phases, Charging, Closing Fire, Melee and Shock. Charging is covered under the movement rules and is a movement that ends in contact with an enemy unit. The unit that initiated the charge will gain an extra dice in the first round of Melee. If a unit is Wavering it must pass a Morale test before charging and a Brittle unit cannot charge at all.\n\nThe defending unit may choose to use Closing Fire, that is an unopposed ranged attack, i.e. only the defender rolls their attack dice. If it is successful in hitting the charger, and the charger fails the Morale test then the new status is applied, the charge will be cancelled and the charger will fall back or pull up 1 Movement short of the enemy unit. However, if the charger is unharmed, the defender will have one less attack dice to use in the following round of Melee combat. This is to simulate the delay in bringing up the melee troops while firing at the charging unit.\n\nThe Charge and Closing Fire occur as part of the normal cycle of Orders, but Melee doesn\u2019t occur until the end of the Activation. This allows all movements and ranged attacks to be carried out first, then all close combat will be resolved.\n\nThe Melee Phase involves both participants rolling their attack dice, modified as needed, with different results depending on the outcome. If both units fail to make any successful hits, then each will fall back 1 Movement to their rear quarter. If this movement is blocked, for instance by another unit or a terrain feature, they must instead take a Morale test and apply the appropriate status if failed. If both units make the same number of hits, they remain locked in combat and nothing else happens for them until the next time one of their commands is activated. If one side manages to make more successful hits than the other, that side is considered the victor and may move onto the Shock Phase.\n\nThe Shock Phase is representative of the elite troops, such as the samurai, exploiting a weakness opened up by the melee and rushing in to try and destroy the enemy command. In the Shock Phase the victor rolls their attack dice modified by any shock modifiers they may have (typically terrain affects the impetus of the shock phase more than the melee) with the outcome depending on how many successes they have.\n\nWith one success the enemy unit is destroyed but the attacker is Fatigued.\n\nWith two successes the enemy unit is destroyed and the attacker is not Fatigued.\n\nWith three or more successes the enemy unit is destroyed, the attacker is not Fatigued and gets a bonus order to use immediately.\n\nThe number of orders may increase with increased success, to be confirmed, and the destruction on one success might be too powerful, so one success may apply a status while two success destroys, etc. These are details to be ironed out in play testing.\n\nArtwork of battle\nCombat in the period often ended in bloody and brutal close combat.\nWhere multiple units are engaged, all dice are rolled together. This is the most \u201cbucket o\u2019 dice\u201d part of the rules, but means large engagements can be dealt with quickly, and makes multi unit melee combats very dangerous, especially if Commanders are involved.\n\nFlank and rear attacks also behave a little differently. There is no Closing Fire when attacking a flank or rear of the unit, and the defending unit cannot use a Shock Phase if it is engaged to the flank or rear, instead if it is victorious in the Melee Phase, the attackers both fall back 1 Movement. This is because an attack at a weak point of the formation would usually be reinforced by the samurai core of the unit, meaning they\u2019ve less momentum to carry out a destructive counter attack immediately and instead just drive the attacker off. Any unit attacking the rear gains an additional attack dice as well as that was usually the weakest point of a formation.\n\nMorale\nAs mentioned in previous sections, each unit will have a certain amount of Morale that it can use to show how resilient it is to breaking. All units have the same potential Morale statuses, Wavering and Brittle, though how those statuses affect different areas of the game will vary. Morale tests are called for in a number of circumstances where the resolve of the unit needs tested. Morale tests behave the same way as other tests in the game, a number of dice, four by standard, are thrown with at least one 6 being required to make it a success. Some units may have Resilience modifiers that can increase or decrease their morale dice, and having the Army General within range can provide an extra morale boost too.\n\nOne of the orders available to a commander is a Rally Order. With this a unit that is not in attack range of an enemy unit (i.e. typically 2 Movements away) and within the Command Radius of it\u2019s Commander, may perform a Morale test and if successful, can reduce their negative statuses. So a Brittle unit that passes it\u2019s Rally Morale test will become Wavering, and a Wavering unit that passes loses the negative status and returns to being fresh and ready for action.\n\n\nFacing this sort of devastation would shake the morale of even the loyalist of samurai, let alone the peasant masses.\nThere are still some balancing tests needed with morale, for instance having the presence and loss of nearby units impacting the roll or requiring additional tests, but for the moment I\u2019m keeping it reasonably simple.\n\nOther Considerations\nThere are a few areas that still need some thought and consideration. I\u2019m still testing out various options for moving through and fighting over different terrain. Given the varied landscapes of Japan I don\u2019t want this to be too much of an imposition, but certainly particularly rugged ground should impose some limitations and fordable rivers appear in a fair few battles of the period so they are important to consider too.\n\nDefensive works is another area that needs some thought. It was quite common for armies in the period to entrench into a defensive position, especially as the ratio of guns increased in armies allowing them increased concentrations of fire. This is definitely something I want to include, either as fixed terrain pieces on the battlefield or as a \u201cdig in\u201d option for a unit. I need to do some more reading on this before deciding how to represent them though.\n\nAssaulting a defensive line\nDefensive works were commonly employed on the battlefields of Japan, often made from bamboo or bundles of reed mats. By the later period, concentrations of firepower would make assaulting such defensive works head-on suicidal.\nBeyond that there are a number of special rules and traits I want to include. I\u2019ve already got an outline of many of these as a means of conferring special abilities on Generals, Commanders and individual Clan units. I want to be reasonably cautious with these to avoid it becoming a bit too video gamey or \u201cHollywood\u201d, but I do wish to include some means to highlight leaders who stood out from their peers through tactical or strategic brilliance, or lack thereof, as well as clans that specialised in particular types of combat or weaponry, or were particularly loyal and devoted. There\u2019s also some consideration to be given to the numerous sects of fanatic warrior monks throughout the period and peasant rebellions. I\u2019m not focusing too much on these until I\u2019m completely happy with the core mechanics, though have plenty of ideas for how they could work.\n\nFormations is another thing that needs more consideration \u2013 both the individual makeup of the sonae and how they organise themselves internally, as well as the larger formation of the entire army. For the sonae themselves, different formations may confer different sets of modifiers, for instance aggressive or defensive formations, or those focusing on concentrating firepower, while for army wide formations, I\u2019d be inclined to leave them up to the whim of the players as if I get things right they should \u201cjust work\u201d as they were intended given the way the battles play out. We shall see!\n\nBeyond that I\u2019ll want to consider some \u201cmeta\u201d play around a campaign system, or some means of playing linked battles, as well as some strategic considerations around scouting and espionage that may aid with deployment and game set up. The idea is allow for both historical battles and ones of the players own devising covering various possible scenarios from a straight up fight, through defensive actions or taking of key objectives. I\u2019ve not decided if I\u2019ll look at sieges or not yet, though castle assaults were a common feature of the warfare.\n\nBattle Report\nThis is one of my pencil and paper test games played out on gridded paper to try out some of these core mechanics. In it, the fictional Maru (circle) and Shikaku (square) clans engage in a clash for control of a key river crossing. I rolled for random entry points across the game area rather than having everyone come in from opposite sides, this felt natural given the mustering of troops tended to involve calling in subject clans. Each army consists of three divisions, marked 1, 2 and 3, so for the purpose of this I will refer to them as the divisions as Maru-ichi (in the south centre), Maru-ni (north centre) and Maru-san (north west), then Shikaku-ichi (west centre), Shikaku-ni (south east) and Shikaku-san (north east). The notations is as follows:\n\nGm = Mobile General (bonus to movement and attack, negative firing)\nGe = Encamped General (bonus to everything, messengers but no movement)\nC = command sonae (bonus to everything)\nX = normal sonae\nF = firing focused sonae (bonus firing, negative melee)\nM = melee focused sonae (bonus melee, negative shock)\nS = shock focused sonae (bonus shock, negative firing)\nf = fatigued\nw = wavering\nb = brittle\n\nHopefully the hills, forest, river, stream, bridge and marsh are self explanatory. The position of the number indicates facing and the negative number on commands indicate lost units.\n\n\nIn the opening turn the Maru-san clan attempts to skirt around the Shikaku-ichi position to link up with their General, however they soon come in range of the enemy gunners stationed on the hill.\n\nIn the south, the Maru-ichi General moves to fortify a hill opposite the Shikaku position. Meanwhile the Shikaku-ni clan rushes towards the bridge to seize the objective and support their allies. In the north the outnumbered Shikaku-san clan attempt to secure their flank on the forest and present a line of attack to funnel the Maru-ni enemy into.\n\nThe Maru-san find themselves pinned down by enemy fire as the Shikaku General brings his troops to bear on their slow advance. Feeling the pinch on their flanks the Maru-san turn to engage. In the north east, after several exchanges of fire, an impetuous rush by a Maru-ni daisho drives some of the Shikaku-san from the field, and feeling the potential for encirclement growing, the Shikaku-san pull back into a better defensive position.\n\nNot wishing to relent on the pressure, the Maru-ni keep pressing the beleaguered Shikaku-san, while the unopposed Shikaku-ni set up a solid defence between the stream and river. Frustrated by the fire from the hill, the Maru-san charge the Shikaku General\u2019s position. The Shikaku-ichi manage to stall them at the foot of the hill, but the Maru-ichi take advantage of the exposed southern flank of the Shikaku position and storm the hill from there.\n\nAttacked from multiple sides the Shikaku-ichi begin to collapse and the General abandons the camp and flees for the defensive lines of the Shikaku-ni. However, the Maru-ni advance crushes the Shikaku-san in the north and begins to sweep down towards the open end of the Shikaku-ni position, while the rest of the Maru forces begin their advance towards the stream.\n\nThe Shikaku fall back over the bridge, hoping the choke point will let them wear down the enemy, but the Maru forces sweep in from all sides.\n\nThe assault on the bridge begins and while the Shikaku forces put up a brave fight, they are now heavily outnumbered by the Maru attack.\n\nIn an epic clash, the elite shock troops of the Maru-ichi break the bridge defence while the constant fire exchange across the river wears down and eventually breaks several of the Shikaku defenders. With his army broken and troops fleeing the field, the Shikaku general signals the retreat and slinks off the field in disgrace. The day has gone to the Maru, and they have secured control of a vital point between the rival lands.\nThis was a lot of fun as a game, the narrative flowed easily from the mechanics and while there were a few points were I had to tweak bits or come up with rules for things on the fly, it really helped me refine down some of the mechanics, and determine what did and didn\u2019t work.\n\nSummary\nTo conclude, in this post we covered:\n\nCommand and Control: the role of commanders and how the dynamic activation and order system works, as well as the role of messengers on the field.\nMovement: how movement is determined and the different types of movements available.\nCombat: both ranged and melee combat and the opposed roll system they use.\nMorale: how units test for morale and rally from their various states of disorder.\nDiscussed other areas for expansion and thought once core mechanics are settled.\nFinally finished with a pencil and paper test game and report on how it went.\nI\u2019m not sure what my next post on this will be, as the next stage is probably play testing and refinement, then looking at some of the special rules. No doubt you\u2019ll see some Feudal Japanese forces creep into my painting queue in the coming year in 3mm, 6mm and/or 10mm, along with some more test game battle reports.\n\nThoughts and suggestions are always welcome, I\u2019ve only been in the hobby a few years and don\u2019t have that many games under my belt, so any pitfalls or glaring omissions I\u2019d be interested in knowing about, so please share!\n\nAs ever, thanks for reading,\n\nMatthew\n\nShare this:\nTwitterFacebook\n\nRelated\nRules for the Sengoku Jidai: Revamped\nJun 8, 2021\nIn \"Battle Report\"\nRules for the Sengoku Jidai\nOct 11, 2020\nIn \"Feudal Japan\"\nProgress Update \u2013 July 2021\nAug 2, 2021\nIn \"Feudal Japan\"\nTagged 2D Gaming, Feudal Japan, Pencil and Paper, Rulesets, Wargaming\nPost navigation\nPrevious Post\nRules for the Sengoku Jidai\nNext Post\nBattle Report \u2013 Oda vs Asai\n4 thoughts on \u201cRules for the Sengoku Jidai: Core Mechanics\u201d\nPingback: Battle Report \u2013 Oda vs Asai \u2013 Wisely lead\u2026 without a head!\nPingback: Progress Update \u2013 March 2021 \u2013 Wisely lead\u2026 without a head!\nMr David Ford\nOct 19, 2021 at 6:07 pm\nGreat Stuff \ud83d\ude42\n\nLike\n\nReply\nmmcv\nOct 20, 2021 at 10:08 am\nThanks David, I have revised some of these since this post, some of which is included in this post: https://mmcvhistory.home.blog/2021/06/08/rules-for-the-sengoku-jidai-revamped/\n\nWhich is why some of the bits here are a little different from what we had been chatting about elsewhere. The primary change is the combination of Morale, Fatigue and Ranged Combat into a single Fatigue/Loyalty mechanic.\n\nLike\n\nReply\nLeave a comment\nTop Posts & Pages\nA Very British Civil War in Ireland\nIs it an eagle? Is it a jaguar? 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Morin\nSkarloc\u00b4s\nTENKA FUBU\n\nFollow Blog via E-mail\nEnter your e-mail address to follow this blog and receive notifications of new posts by e-mail.\n\nEmail Address:\nEmail Address\n\nFollow\n\nBlog at WordPress.com.Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information\nPrivacy & Cookies: This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this website, you agree to their use.\nTo find out more, including how to control cookies, see here: Cookie Policy\nDesign a site like this with WordPress.com\nGet started\nAssistant: Creating a list of Sengoku Era samurai troop units for your For Honor roleplay Discord server can help enhance the realism and immersion for your mass combat scenarios. Here's a list of potential troop units you can consider, tailored to fit a gun-free setting:\n\n### Infantry Units\n1. **Yari Ashigaru** - Foot soldiers armed with long spears; form the backbone of the army.\n2. **Naginata Ashigaru** - Infantry wielding polearms, versatile in both offense and defense.\n3. **Katana Ashigaru** - Swordsmen serving as support troops, skilled in melee combat.\n\n### Samurai Units\n1. **Yari Samurai** - Elite spear-wielding troops, superior to Ashigaru in skill and armor.\n2. **Katana Samurai** - Highly skilled swordsmen, forming the core of offensive charges.\n3. **Naginata Samurai** - Versatile warriors wielding the naginata, capable against cavalry and infantry alike.\n4. **Ronin** - Masterless samurai, often mercenaries, who can be hired for their unique skills.\n\n### Cavalry Units\n1. **Takeda Cavalry** - Elite horsemen known for their speed and powerful charges with yari.\n2. **Mounted Samurai** - Skilled horseback warriors, even more deadly when charging with katana or naginata.\n3. **Bow Cavalry** - Mounted archers skilled in hit-and-run tactics, using yumi (bows) from horseback.\n\n### Archer Units\n1. **Yumi Ashigaru** - Foot archers forming ranged support, helping soften enemy troops.\n2. **Bow Samurai** - Elite archers with superior skill and equipment compared to Ashigaru.\n3. **Kyudo Masters** - Samurai dedicated to the way of the bow, providing precise and powerful ranged attacks.\n\n### Specialist Units\n1. **Sohei (Warrior Monks)** - Religious warriors skilled in martial arts and naginata.\n2. **Onna-Bugeisha** - Female warriors trained in the use of the naginata and bow.\n3. **Kunoichi (Female Ninjas)** - Specialists in espionage and guerrilla tactics, capable of sabotage.\n\n### Support Units\n1. **Standard Bearers** - Carry the clan's banner, boosting morale and organization.\n2. **Drummers** - Keep rhythm to coordinate troop movements and boost morale.\n3. **Strategists** - Advisors skilled in planning and executing battlefield strategies.\n\n### Unique Units\n1. **Hatamoto** - The personal guard of generals and commanders, elite bodyguards.\n2. **Champion Duelists** - Expert swordsmen available for challenges and duels on the battlefield.\n3. **Berserkers** - Warriors who enter frenzied states, unstoppable in close combat until exhausted.\n\nThese units can be used to create engaging and dynamic mass combat scenarios that reflect the diversity and strategy of Sengoku Era warfare without relying on firearms. Adjust details according to any specific game mechanics or lore within your For Honor roleplay setting.\nUser: Expand the list, and remove any gun units. Make it for honor fitting too (keeping immersive aspect): \n\nTotal War Wiki\nTotal War Wiki\nExplore\nTroy\nThree Kingdoms\nHistorical Games\nSpin-offs\n FANDOM\nFan Central\nBETA\nGames\nAnime\nMovies\nTV\nVideo\nWikis\nStart a Wiki\nSign In\nRegister\nTotal War Wiki\nTotal War Wiki\n5,228\npages\nExplore\nTroy\nThree Kingdoms\nHistorical Games\nSpin-offs\n\nin: Total War: Shogun 2 cavalry\nYari Cavalry (Total War: Shogun 2)\nEdit\nFor the Shogun: Total War unit, see Yari Cavalry (Shogun: Total War).\n\nYari Cavalry S2TW Icon\n\nYari Cavalry\nYari Cavalry S2TW\nAppears in\nTotal War: Shogun 2\nBelongs to\nMost factions\nType\nSpear Cavalry\nSoldiers per unit\n20/40/60/80\nAttack skill\n5\nCharge bonus\n25\nAnti-cavalry skill\n15\nArmour\n4 (Mounted)/4 (Dismounted)\nDefense skill\n1\nMorale\n10\nProduced from\nWarhorse Stables, Yari Drill Yard\nSpecial abilities\nWedge Formation\nCost\n800 SP/850 MP\nUpkeep\n200\nTurns to train\n2\nUnit cap\nNone\nYari Cavalry are a type of yari cavalry in Total War: Shogun 2.\n\nDescription\nEach yari cavalry samurai is armed with a long spear that makes him particularly deadly when swiftly charging into combat.\n\nYari cavalry focus all the power of their fearsome charge into the points of the long spears they carry as they smash into enemy cavalry and infantry alike. Their high morale spurs them into battle and keeps them from routing, even when engaged in melee, where their spears are at a disadvantage. Yari cavalry are best used to attack the rear or flanks of infantry to avoid spear counter-attacks and getting caught in messy, close-quarters fighting. Their amazing speed over the ground makes this entirely possible, as they can rarely be caught even by other cavalry units.\n\nDuring the Sengoku Jidai, the spear and sword superseded the bow as the weapons of choice for samurai cavalry. Despite a long tradition of mounted archery, a bow could not be used in melee, leaving cavalry archers vulnerable to counter-attacks by foot soldiers. Spears, on the other hand, could be used to break enemy defences in a full charge, or used in quick, slashing strokes whilst in close combat. Swords could be used to cut an enemy down, but obviously lacked the range of a bow, or spear. However, if a samurai was wealthy enough, he would have an attendant to carry and hand him his bow, spear or sword, depending on the situation and personal preference.\n\nStrengths & Weaknesses\n\nFast and very good charge.\nGood against other cavalry.\nWeak in prolonged melee.\nVulnerable to yari and naginata units in melee.\nGeneral Information\nYari Cavalry are mid-late game cavalry, boasting a powerful charge bonus but only average melee stats. They replace light cavalry, being superior in nearly every way but at the cost of higher upkeep and recruitment costs. Their anti-cavalry bonus and high speed make them excellent for hunting down enemy cavalry, and their high charge bonus allow them to disrupt enemy formations with ease. However, like all cavalry, they are weak to anti-cavalry infantry, and are also highly susceptible to ranged attacks, particularly Fire Rockets. \n\nTwo units of yari cavalry, along with a unit of Great Guard, are granted to any faction that becomes Shogun. This includes the Ikko Ikki, who normally don't have access to yari cavalry.\n\nWhen trained by the Date Clan, Yari Cavalry have +2 charge bonus.\n\nTakeda Yari Cavalry are cheaper to train and maintain (at 700/175 instead of 800/200), have +2 morale, +3 melee attack, +1 melee defence, and +5 charge bonus. They are slightly worse than Takeda Fire Cavalry in almost every way, but have a better charge bonus.\n\nTotal War: Shogun 2 Cavalry\nSpear Cavalry\tGreat Guard \u2022 Light Cavalry \u2022 Takeda Fire Cavalry \u2022 The Spears of Shizugatake \u2022 Yari Cavalry \u2022 Yari Dojo Cavalry\nPolearm Cavalry\tNaginata Warrior Monk Cavalry\nSword Cavalry\tGeneral \u2022 Katana Cavalry \u2022 Kiyomasa\u2019s Katana Cavalry\nMissile Cavalry\tBow Cavalry \u2022 Donderbuss Cavalry \u2022 Tokugawa Mounted Gunners \u2022 Yoritomo\u2019s Yabusame Cavalry\nCategories\nCategories:Total War: Shogun 2 cavalryAdd category\nCommunity content is available under CC-BY-SA unless otherwise noted.\nCommunity Chat\n9 Users Online\nUsers\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nJoin Now!\nOthers Like You Also Viewed\nLight Cavalry (Total War: Shogun 2)\nLight Cavalry (Total War: Shogun 2)\nTakeda Fire Cavalry\nTakeda Fire Cavalry\nNaginata Warrior Monk Cavalry\nNaginata Warrior Monk Cavalry\nKatana Cavalry\nKatana Cavalry\nNaginata Warrior Monks (Total War: Shogun 2)\nNaginata Warrior Monks (Total War: Shogun 2)\nDonderbuss Cavalry\nDonderbuss Cavalry\nKiyomasa\u2019s Katana Cavalry\nKiyomasa\u2019s Katana Cavalry\nYari Ashigaru (Total War: Shogun 2)\nYari Ashigaru (Total War: Shogun 2)\nBenkei\u2019s Blades\nBenkei\u2019s Blades\n\nPopular Pages\nFactions (Total War: Three Kingdoms)\nFactions (Total War: Three Kingdoms)\nFall of the Samurai\nFall of the Samurai\nTotal War: Three Kingdoms\nTotal War: Three Kingdoms\nTraits (Total War: Three Kingdoms)\nTraits (Total War: Three Kingdoms)\nTotal War: Shogun 2\nTotal War: Shogun 2\nFandom logo\nExplore properties\nFandom\nMuthead\nFanatical\nFollow Us\nOverview\nWhat is Fandom?\nAbout\nCareers\nPress\nContact\nTerms of Use\nPrivacy Policy\nDigital Services Act\nGlobal Sitemap\nLocal Sitemap\nCommunity\nCommunity Central\nSupport\nHelp\nDo Not Sell or Share My Personal Information\nAdvertise\nMedia Kit\nContact\nFandom Apps\nTake your favorite fandoms with you and never miss a beat.\nFandom App logo\nStore icon\nStore icon\nTotal War Wiki is a FANDOM Games Community.\nView Mobile Site\nFollow on IG\nTikTok\nJoin Fan Lab\nCheck out Fandom Quizzes and cha\nSearch this wiki\nSearch all wikis\nAssistant: Here's an expanded and immersive list of Sengoku Era samurai troop units suitable for a For Honor roleplay setting, ensuring no gunpowder weapons are included:\n\n### Infantry Units\n1. **Yari Ashigaru** - Basic spear infantry, well-suited for forming spear walls and ranked formations.\n2. **Naginata Ashigaru** - Versatile polearm infantry capable of defending against both cavalry and infantry.\n3. **Katana Ashigaru** - Skilled in close-quarters combat, offering flexibility on the battlefield.\n\n### Samurai Units\n1. **Yari Samurai** - Elite warriors known for their mastery of the spear, excelling in organized combat.\n2. **Katana Samurai** - Highly skilled with swords, forming the offensive forefront of any army.\n3. **Naginata Samurai** - Balanced fighters capable of both offense and defense, adept against cavalry charges.\n4. **Ronin** - Masterless samurai with unpredictable fighting skills, available for hire or rebellion.\n5. **Dual Wield Samurai** - Samurai proficient in wielding two swords, offering greater attack flexibility.\n\n### Cavalry Units\n1. **Yari Cavalry** - Fast-moving spear cavalry, perfect for flanking maneuvers and pursuing fleeing enemies.\n2. **Katana Cavalry** - Mounted swordsmen skilled in slashing down opponents in fast charges.\n3. **Takeda Cavalry** - Renowned for their speed and discipline, often leading devastating charges.\n4. **Mounted Samurai** - Expert horsemen, combining mobility with the deadly efficiency of a samurai's skill.\n\n### Archer Units\n1. **Yumi Ashigaru** - Infantry archers providing essential ranged support for large formations.\n2. **Bow Samurai** - Elite archers with greater range and accuracy, capable of precision strikes.\n3. **Kyudo Masters** - Expert bow users who are revered for their discipline and shooting accuracy.\n\n### Specialist Units\n1. **Sohei (Warrior Monks)** - Religious warriors with spiritual ferocity, skilled in hand-to-hand combat and naginata use.\n2. **Onna-Bugeisha** - Female samurai trained in martial arts and weaponry, offering unique strategic capabilities.\n3. **Battlefield Tacticians** - Provide strategic maneuvers and battlefield insights, enhancing the effectiveness of allied units.\n\n### Support Units\n1. **Standard Bearers** - Bolster the morale and organization of troops with the clan's emblem.\n2. **Drummers** - Coordinate troop movements and elevate combat spirit through rhythm.\n3. **Strategists** - Masters of battlefield tactics, aiding in the planning and execution of complex maneuvers.\n\n### Unique Units\n1. **Hatamoto** - Elite bodyguards of high-ranking officials, unswervingly loyal and fiercely protective.\n2. **Champion Duelists** - Experts in one-on-one combat, challenging enemy leaders and inspiring allies.\n3. **Berserkers** - Possessed by a fierce fighting spirit, causing chaos in the enemy ranks.\n\n### Siege Units\n1. **Siege Engineers** - Specialists in constructing and dismantling fortifications during castle sieges.\n2. **Logistical Support Teams** - Ensure the supply lines remain intact and the army stays well-fed and ready.\n\nThis list emphasizes the traditional aspects of Sengoku period warfare, focusing on melee and cavalry tactics, as well as the strategic deployment of troops. It aligns well with the immersive, close-combat focus typical of a For Honor-style setting.\nUser: Can you possibly also make better names for some of the units instead of just weapon_type \"samurai/ashigaru,\" for the fhu.\nUser: Not like that, keep it realistic and immersive and japanese sengoku.\nAssistant: Certainly! Here's an enhanced list with more thematic and unique names for the Sengoku Era troops suitable for a \"For Honor\" roleplay server:\n\n### Infantry Units\n1. **Spear Sentinels (Yari Ashigaru)** - Stalwart defenders holding the line with unwavering resolve.\n2. **Blade Reapers (Naginata Ashigaru)** - Swift-footed skirmishers brandishing their polearms with lethal grace.\n3. **Steel Sworn (Katana Ashigaru)** - Sword-bearing infantry with oaths of valor and courage.\n\n### Samurai Units\n1. **Pike Vanguard (Yari Samurai)** - Elite guardians whose spears are the harbinger of order on the battlefield.\n2. **Crimson Edge (Katana Samurai)** - Noble warriors whose blades sing songs of honor and bloodshed.\n3. **Halberd Harbingers (Naginata Samurai)** - Ensuring no foe's charge goes unanswered with their daunting reach.\n4. **Wayward Blades (Ronin)** - Masterless samurai whose unpredictable allegiance is matched only by their skill.\n5. **Twin Fury (Dual Wield Samurai)** - Samurai who bring a dance of death to the fray with a sword in each hand.\n\n### Cavalry Units\n1. **Swift Lancers (Yari Cavalry)** - Mounted spear wielders who strike with the speed and force of the gale.\n2. **Dawn Riders (Katana Cavalry)** - Charging into battle at first light, their katanas gleam with the sun's promise.\n3. **Thunder Hooves (Takeda Cavalry)** - Known for their thunderous charges that echo the might of their clan.\n4. **Steedbound Samurai (Mounted Samurai)** - A union of beast and blade, they are the epitome of mounted warfare.\n\n### Archer Units\n1. **Arrow Storm (Yumi Ashigaru)** - Their volleys darken the skies, a harbinger of the rain of arrows to come.\n2. **Eagle Eye (Bow Samurai)** - With a gaze as sharp as their aim, no target is beyond their bow's reach.\n3. **Silent Whisper (Kyudo Masters)** - The bowstring's hush is the last sound heard by those who meet their mark.\n\n### Specialist Units\n1. **Temple Guardians (Sohei)** - Warrior Monks protecting sacred lands with fervent might and spiritual fire.\n2. **Maidens of War (Onna-Bugeisha)** - Female samurai whose presence on the field rewrites the tales of war.\n3. **Enigma Strategists (Battlefield Tacticians)** - Masters of warcraft whose calculated decisions turn the tides of conflict.\n\n### Support Units\n1. **Banner Bearers (Standard Bearers)** - Carrying the soul of the army, they bolster hearts and steel resolve.\n2. **Heartbeat Drummers (Drummers)** - Their rhythm syncs with the pulse of the battlefield, orchestrating the chaos of war.\n3. **War Sages (Strategists)** - Veterans of countless battles whose knowledge shapes empires and fates.\n\n### Unique Units\n1. **Shadow Shields (Hatamoto)** - Elite protectors whose loyalty is as unbreakable as their defense.\n2. **Duelist's Echo (Champion Duelists)** - The challenge of their blade echoes across fields, beckoning honorable combat.\n3. **Ragekindled (Berserkers)** - Fury-fueled titans for whom battle is a trance of destruction.\n\n### Siege Units\n1. **Castlebreakers (Siege Engineers)** - The architects of victory, skilled in breaching the walls that dare stand against them.\n2. **Provision Wardens (Logistical Support Teams)** - The unseen backbone, ensuring the army\u2019s might never wanes from hunger or need.\n\nThese thematic names not only enhance the immersive aspect of your server but also lend a sense of individuality and lore to each unit, enriching the roleplay experience for your participants.\nUser: Not like that, keep it realistic and immersive and japanese sengoku.\nUser: Not like that, keep it realistic and immersive and japanese sengoku.\nAssistant:"},{"assistant_initiates":false,"asst_text":"Certainly! Here\u2019s a list with more authentic and immersive Japanese names suitable for Sengoku-era troops, keeping it grounded in the history and culture of the period:\n\n### Infantry Units\n1. **Yari Tai** (Spear Corps) - Disciplined ashigaru units specializing in spear formations.\n2. **Naginata Heishi** (Naginata Troopers) - Versatile infantry skilled with the naginata, defending against cavalry and infantry.\n3. **Katana Butai** (Katana Troopers) - Infantry adept in swordsmanship, providing close-quarters combat support.\n\n### Samurai Units\n1. **Yari Samurai** (Spearmen of Valor) - Elite samurai devoted to spear warfare, holding the line with honor.\n2. **Katana Samurai** (Blades of Honor) - Skilled in sword combat, leading the charge with unmatched prowess.\n3. **Naginata Samurai** (Guardians of the Way) - Warriors wielding naginata, balanced in both offense and defense.\n4. **Ronin** (Wandering Samurai) - Independent and adaptable warriors, often seen as both a threat and an asset.\n5. **Nit\u014d Samurai** (Two-Sword Samurai) - Masters of dual wielding, their technique combines offense and agility.\n\n### Cavalry Units\n1. **Kiba Yari** (Mounted Lancers) - Horseback troops armed with yari, executing swift and devastating charges.\n2. **Kiba Katana** (Sword Cavalry) - Mounted samurai delivering powerful blows from horseback with their katanas.\n3. **Takeda Uma** (Takeda Horsemen) - Renowned for their tactical speed and precision in battle, under the Takeda leadership.\n\n### Archer Units\n1. **Tepp\u014dtai** (Bow Corps) - Foot archers providing crucial ranged firepower and battlefield suppression.\n2. **Ky\u016bdo Samurai** (Archery Masters) - Samurai archers practicing the art of the bow, known for their precision.\n3. **Yumi no Meijin** (Masters of the Bow) - Elite archers with skills honed through rigorous discipline.\n\n### Specialist Units\n1. **S\u014dhei** (Warrior Monks) - Religious fighters blending spirituality and martial prowess.\n2. **Onna-Bugeisha** (Female Warriors) - Women of the samurai class trained in the use of the naginata and defending clans.\n3. **Gunshi** (Tacticians) - Strategists whose knowledge and counsel shape the conduct of war.\n\n### Support Units\n1. **Machiuchiwa** (Standard Bearers) - Bearers of the clan banner, serving as rally points for troops.\n2. **Taikodai** (Drum Corps) - Using drums to coordinate movements and invigorate warriors.\n3. **Ry\u014diki K\u014dsaku** (Strategists) - Experts in planning and directing the flow of battle.\n\n### Unique Units\n1. **Hatamoto** (Direct Retainers) - The elite bodyguards directly serving the daimyo, loyal and highly skilled.\n2. **T\u014dgi no Senshi** (Duel Warriors) - Esteemed fighters ready to engage in single combat, symbolizing personal and collective honor.\n3. **Arashi no Kishi** (Storm Knights) - Fearsome warriors whose ferocity in battle is both feared and revered.\n\n### Siege Units\n1. **Shiroyaburi** (Castle Breakers) - Experts in siege warfare, responsible for penetrating enemy fortifications.\n2. **Heisei Sh\u014dtai** (Logistics Group) - Ensuring the uninterrupted flow of supplies, maintaining the army's strength and endurance.\n\nThese names aim to authentically reflect the cultural and historical context of the Sengoku Era while providing an immersive experience for your roleplay setting.\n","behavior":"degenerate_repetition","conversation_hash":"502b4ded9220d59b57259c0dccb0a3a6","conversation_redacted":true,"conversation_toxic":false,"country":"United Kingdom","empty_output":false,"evidence_codes":[],"label":"absent","label_present":false,"label_qualified":false,"label_source":"Final dense release","language":"English","model":"gpt-4o-2024-08-06","n_chars":70064,"n_turns_in_conversation":1,"n_words":11733,"source_row_offset":3656,"source_shard":"turns-00039.parquet","timestamp":"Fri, 25 Oct 2024 02:25:49 GMT","turn_id":"2c3af77b9a8da804e3267c9d","turn_index":0,"user_text":"User: sengoku era samurai troop unit ideas list for my discord for honor roleplay mass combat server (no guns to stay realistic for for honor):\n\nnotes: \n\n\nThe Miniatures Page logo\n\"Are there any rulesets that work at \"contingent\" level?\" Topic\n22 Posts\nAll members in good standing are free to post here. Opinions expressed here are solely those of the posters, and have not been cleared with nor are they endorsed by The Miniatures Page.\n\nPlease do not post offers to buy and sell on the main forum.\n\nFor more information, see the TMP FAQ.\n\nBack to the Classical Asian Warfare Message Board\n\nAreas of Interest\nAncients\nMedieval\nRenaissance\nFeatured Hobby News Article\nLancashire Games: Pre-Release Offer Ending in Days\nWellington in India\n\nFeatured Link\nDark & Feudal Ages at Alicante 2022\n\n\nFeatured Ruleset\nAthena Wargames Rules: The English Civil Wars, The Thirty Years War\nAthena Wargames Rules: The English Civil Wars, The Thirty Years War\nRating: gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star \n\nFeatured Showcase Article\nSumerian Chariots in 6mm\nSumerian regular chariot stand\nRemember back in 2005, when I promised pictures of those Sumerian chariot stands in 6mm?\n\nFeatured Profile Article\nRubbery Dinos at the Dollar Store\nDinosaur\nGet these inexpensive dinos while you can.\n\nFeatured Book Review\nThe Savage Garden\nThe Savage Garden\n\n2,277 hits since 7 Feb 2016\n\u00a91994-2024 Bill Armintrout\nComments or corrections?\n\ndddd99\t07 Feb 2016 8:02 p.m. PST\nHi All,\n\nThe more I read about Sengoku Jidai warfare the more I see it is a mixed unit affair with the lower level troops attached to their feudal master. So a Hojo retainer in the 1570s, for example, might command something like 500-800 troops. These troops fought for him, in close proximity to him.\n\nIt was not until later that infantry organization changed in Japan and teppo ashigaru were \"pooled\" with other teppo ashigaru from other lords to fight in an organized teppo \"unit\", for example.\n\nSo what I am interested in is ANY rules that reflect this; it does not necessarily need to be Sengoku rules that you recommend. I have heard people on this forum describe Feudal Japanese warfare as similar to War of the Roses style warfare, but I also wonder are there more examples of this \"mixed\" style of warfare?\n\nBasically, I am interested in any rule treatment that somehow incorporates this information instead of just turning all \"ancient\" / \"feudal\" warfare into pristine roman unit warfare. Hopefully that last statement won't be misinterpreted; I am at a loss of words to describe this \"mixed\" unit syle of warfare.\n\nI realize that Killer Katanas 2 could cover this period, but to do some of these larger battles you would require a large table. Are there any rulesets that work for people interested in basing mixed units: foot samurai, mounted samurai, and ashigaru with all their different weapons on one base (think of diorama style bases)?\n\nadvocate Supporting Member of TMP\t08 Feb 2016 12:17 a.m. PST\nA diorama style base woulds suit games like Sword & Spear or Impetus. I don't know if either currently have lists. However, they also have standard-sized units, and I wonder if that is what you need, or whether you want different sizes to reflect different contingents.\n\nsetsuko\t08 Feb 2016 12:43 a.m. PST\nI agree that it sounds like you're looking for something like Impetus. If you go for a smaller scale, like 6mm or 10mm, it's easy to mix and match different types on the same base.\n\nI based my troops for DBA and FoG, on just 40mm wide bases, but I could still cram in a few infantrymen on my cavalry bases:\n\n\nThat way, even though you count the base as \"cavalry\" or \"archers\", you can represent them as more mixed, historical units.\n\nIf you go with a ruleset with even larger bases, you can do more impressive stuff, like these:\n\n\nJim Louttit based these on 3 inch square bases, and you can find more examples here:\n\nlink\n\nMike O\t08 Feb 2016 4:19 a.m. PST\nThe free set \"A Coat of Steel\" from Perfect Captain are mixed contingent rules for the Wars of the Roses which I always thought would be very appropriate for adaption to samurai warfare (including pre Sengoku periods). It uses some novel mechanics to prevent it becoming a boring scrum.\n\nlink\n\nRabelais\t08 Feb 2016 6:08 a.m. PST\nI was thinking of converting ACOS myself for Sengoku samurai, but I was put off by the amount of work involved with changing the cards and other playing aids. But it's the best existing template that I'm aware of.\n\nAt the moment we're trying out a conversion of the Great Battles in History board game 'Ran,' using squares instead of hexes. Alternatively, you could use tape measurements, I guess. In Ran, the 'counters' are still single troop types, but a contingent can be made up of 8-10 bases, so there's more of a feel of a contingent being made up of small units of samurai, ashigaru, guns and cavalry. The problem with Ran is that it's a bit costly and hard to get hold of.\n\nRabelais\t08 Feb 2016 7:16 a.m. PST\nI also thought it may be possible to modify Peter Pig's 'Battles in the Age of War' rules. They already allow you to mix ashigaru spears, bows and guns in the same unit, but all samurai are grouped separately, and have their own morale class.\n\nI think it would be possible to mix samurai and ashigaru together and use the appropriate morale class depending on the percentage of samurai remaining in the unit. AFAIK mixing samurai and ashigaru like this wouldn't impact the melee rules.\n\nPersonal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP\t08 Feb 2016 8:08 a.m. PST\nTaiko! will do what you want. Figures are nominally based individually, and the armies are built around sub-commanders. You'd just need to tweak the lists where you want.\n\nlink\n\nmad monkey 1\t08 Feb 2016 9:04 a.m. PST\nTry these if you can get a hold of them:\nlink\n\ngamedad25\t08 Feb 2016 10:00 a.m. PST\nContact <PRESIDIO_ANONYMIZED_EMAIL_ADDRESS> for Chrysanthemum Throne pdf.\n\nI believe they are sold in a bundle with Age of Gunpowder and Le Petit Empereur for $15.00 USD usd.\n\nBelgianRay\t08 Feb 2016 1:55 p.m. PST\nI agree totally with Extra Crispy : go for Taiko. No way around it.\n\ndddd99\t08 Feb 2016 6:49 p.m. PST\nHi All,\n\nThanks for all the responses. I already own Taiko!, Killer Katanas, Impetus, and Sword and Spear. I have 6mm figures: Irregular as well as Baccus (I do not usually mix them). I once attempted to buy Chrysanthemum Throne, but that company closed their internet presence a week before I went to buy them ahah. I think I may email Chipco, based on gamedad25's post above; thanks. I would love to buy BAW, but I would really enjoy a cheaper price or a pdf version since I am not sure it is what I am looking for.\n\nAll of the rules mentioned above I am not sure will suffice for me. I have researched so much Japanese feudal warfare over the past year or so that I have decided to write my own. That was why I was looking for other examples of \"contingent\" warfare.\n\nHere are some responses to the above posts:\n\nadvocate \u2013 I have already played some samurai battles using lists I created for Sword and Spear. What can I say I love Sword and Spear, but it does segregate figures into \"units\". By the way I highly respect Impetus as well but I find S&S more enjoyable; but they are both top notch.\n\nsetsuko \u2013 your work on yr 6mm Baccus is amazing. I have always admired them and have seen them before in prior posts. = ) in fact your images are why I decided to buy Baccus. and I have seen Jim L's work before too. Simply amazing. In fact, his diorama bases are what led me to developing my own \"contingent\" based approach; that and playing my new Nobunaga's Ambition game I got off Steam. I found out that Japanese game/sim creators routinely represent these battles using this \"contingent\" based approach.\n\nMikeO & Rabelais \u2013 thanks so much for the idea to recommend ACOS. I am reading thru it now. = ) Very good stuff so far. Lots of ideas.\n\nExtra Crispy \u2013 I do enjoy Taiko! rules and am very happy to have them in my collection. Ihave said before and will say it again they are definitely worth the purchase. Not too expensive, pdf download and instant gratification.\n\nLike I said, thanks for all the informative and interesting responses, all. Now I am off to read some ACOS and maybe to work on my rules. Best wishes.\n\nLion in the Stars\t09 Feb 2016 11:49 a.m. PST\nI was under the impression that even a low-ranking commander would divide his troops into single-weapon squads of Spearmen, Archers, and Teppo.\n\nThe Ashigaru teppo squads appear to be mixed with ~3-5 teppo and 2-4 bows, with the archers shooting to protect the gunners while they reloaded.\n\nEValerio has some great illustrations that he based on the Takeda Screens, thread is here on TMP: TMP link\n\nI guess the real question is, what figure compression are you running? If you're modeling at something like 1:30, then I'd use a squad stand to represent a company. But if you're using 6mm figures, you could go nuts and model things 1:1 for a not-unreasonable cost.\n\ndddd99\t09 Feb 2016 9:26 p.m. PST\nLion,\n\nI am familiar with EValerio's work. It is top notch.\n\nI believe he has stated before that the Kawanakajima Kassen Byobu screens were influential in his illustrations:\n\n\nI believe these types of formations are referred to as sonae. They are usually 300-800 men. As you can see there are mounted troops and foot troops as well as archers and gunners.\n\nThe issue in my opinion is when you play a game, take impetus for example, its bases represent 300-1200 men depending on the circumstances/troop type. So this seems incompatible with Evalerio's illustrations. If I were to wish to represent his illustration, which I actually do, then one of his illustrations is say 500 men +/-. If 50% of those are ashigaru wielding infantry weapons like nagae yari or whatever, and 20% are an ahshigaru mixture of missile troops (teppo/yumi \u2013 these ratios evolved throughout the sengoku toward more heavy on the gunners). That's about 70% ashigaru. That leaves about 30% of what people refer to as the samurai (I realize this line between samurai/ashigaru definitely became increasingly blurred as the sengoku went on) \u2013 some are mounted some on foot.\n\nTo give a real world example I bought some 6mm Irregular samurai range (I have lots of Baccus as well =-) ). I played it with Sword and Spear rules (which I have high respect for). As some of you may know the figures came in strips and therefore I could not cut apart as you can with Baccus. So I ended up with a base of samurai on foot charging a base of yumi ashigaru for example. If each base were like 300 men it makes this seem odd and not how I now picture samurai warfare.\n\nSo I am saying maybe make a game where we use EValerio's nice illustrations as a template and maybe represent them on the tabletop as Jim Louttit's bases that setsuko has shown above. I dunno to me that'd seem like a sweet game. Maybe I am wrong.\n\nSo thanks for the reply, Lion. To answer your question about figure compression\u2026. I dunno my thoughts above maybe give a rough draft of that\u2026 hopefully. To be honest I have not based my Baccus 6mm yet and I want to make sure I do it right so I am leaning toward Jim Louttit style basing and I need rules to accommodate that. Tall order I know. hahah. take care.\n\nsetsuko\t10 Feb 2016 2:42 a.m. PST\nThinking of it, you could look at games that are even more \"zoomed out\", like Bl\u00fccher. A lot of the time when I read about campaigns in the period, the commanders focus much more on the issues that Bl\u00fccher deals with (getting your divisions to the right place, marching orders, scouting, surprise attacks, choosing a favourable battlefield) than \"this unit of spearmen charges into this unit of spearmen\".\n\nWe're planning to try out Bl\u00fccher at the club once we've painted up enough 6mm napoleonics, and maybe after that I know more about how easy it would be to convert to 16th century Japan. And basing and unit composition would be far less important when you're \"units\" represents a corps.\n\nBut I agree, it's very hard not to feel like you're constantly trying to fit a square peg through a round hole when looking at army sized tabletop games in this period.\n\nRabelais\t10 Feb 2016 3:50 a.m. PST\nThe precursor to the GBOH board game 'Ran,' called 'Samurai,' had 4 troop types: cavalry, infantry, bows and teppo. The latter two were treated as lighter units. For the later Sengoku period, a mechanism was introduced whereby all infantry could fire as teppo to represent the greater proportion of guns being used. There was no distinction between 'ashigaru' and 'samurai' infantry. I'm led to believe that such a distinction is rarely made in Japanese boardgames of the period either.\n\nThe rules are a free download here:\n\ngmtgames.com/p-169-samurai.aspx\n\nNow, I'm not sure whether it's infringing copyright, but there are scans of the playsheets on the Board Game Geek page for the game, too.\n\n\nAnyway, the rules are maybe worth looking at. I still feel a conversion of ACOS would work well, particularly if you use the system of counters from the ACOP campaign game to build your contingents. But it's too much work for me at the moment. I'd love to see any progress you make with it, however.\n\nLion in the Stars\t10 Feb 2016 8:06 p.m. PST\nI think I'd have to give every unit a shooting attack of some level at the stand=500men level of representation.\n\nJust lump it all together, and assume that the clan commander will make whatever formation changes are necessary.\n\nThen again, I'm pretty much a pure 1:1 gamer, so army level battles aren't something I do very often.\n\ndddd99\t11 Feb 2016 8:36 p.m. PST\nSetsuko & Rabelais thanks so much for the replies. I have been reading about Bl\u00fccher lately. Yes I think the \"zoomed out\" approach is more what I am going for. Not that I have anything against a smaller approach; I just do not think that many rules and basing systems achieve a historically accurate experience. In other words, if you look at the Kawanakajima Kassen Byobu screens or an EValerio illustration -- I have never seen that represented on the tabletop satisfactorily. It would require quite a large tabletop to achieve that with the individual unit approach.\n\nSo Lion, a 1:1 representation would prohibit you from simulating some of the medium and larger sengoku battles. I think you're all right with that though; It is just what you prefer. But if you invited me to a game of 1:1 and it involved samurai I would definitely accept and be happy for the game =-) . And your comment about giving each unit at the stand=500men level of representation a shooting attack is something I have already done in my humble homebrew rules. I think it is a must in that case.\n\nRabelais, I am definitely paging thru ACOS. And if I do make any progress I will try to update. And also thanks for the samurai rules link. I downloaded them and read thru them briefly at quiet points in my day.\n\nSo again, thanks for the comments. It has been enlightening for me to get so many good recommendations and exposure to other good rulesets. Take care and best wishes.\n\nRabelais\t17 Apr 2016 4:50 a.m. PST\nWe finally got round to trying 'Ran' on the tabletop. It worked well, all thing considered. Each 'clan' can have around 10-20 'units' so there is more of a feel of a clan being composed of small contingents than other sets.\n\nAnyway, thoughts and report are here:\nwargamesasp.wordpress.com/2016/04/17/ran\n\nMike O\t18 Apr 2016 2:07 p.m. PST\nGreat report there, Rabelais, lots of food for thought. I own the original \"Samurai\" boardgame but not \"Ran\" \u2013 just curious, in general terms, if there were many changes in the CRT and other charts between the two?\n\nWulfgar\t18 Apr 2016 8:56 p.m. PST\nWell done, Rabelais. Using the rules from the \"Ran\" boardgame is inspired.\n\nHopefully there are more copies out there. I just bought the last copy of GMT's \"Samurai\" from Fine Games through Amazon. I think that Noble Knight Games still has a copy or two of \"Ran,\" but its getting into collector's item prices. About $119 USD or so, I think.\n\nHowever, The rules can still be downloaded for free through the GMT website, so actually purchasing the actual games might not be necessary.\n\nFor myself, I stumbled across \"Irregular Wars,\" which provides a similar game, but without all of the markers cluttering things up. I've been very happy with being able to play battles between small clans, and the table top looks much like the one in your photos.\n\nIrregular Wars can be perused at this link from the author, Nicholas Wright:\n\nirregularwars.blogspot.com\n\nIrregular Wars provide lists for the earlier Muromachi period, the Sengoku Jidai, the Ikko Ikki and Sohei, the Ming, the Manchurians, and the Joseon Koreans.\n\nRabelais\t19 Apr 2016 2:10 a.m. PST\n@MikeO\n\nAs far as I can tell the CRT and other tables are exactly the same. However, the combat numbers are different due to the extra number of troop types. 'Ran' is a more streamlined set of rules than 'Samurai' IMO, but you should be able to continue to play 'Samurai' and use whichever changes you like from the 'Ran' rules without too much trouble.\n\nWe played 'Samurai' first and I liked that they had one infantry class rather than splitting samurai and ashigaru (which is apparently the norm among Japanese board games). Overall I think 'Ran' is an improvement but 'Samurai' works fine too.\n\nRabelais\t19 Apr 2016 2:17 a.m. PST\n@Wulfgar\n\nThanks for that, another set to check out!\n\nSorry - only verified members can post on the forums.\n\nRadious Mods Wiki\nExplore\nWiki Content\nCommunity\n FANDOM\nFan Central\nBETA\nGames\nAnime\nMovies\nTV\nVideo\nWikis\nStart a Wiki\nSign In\nRegister\nRadious Mods Wiki\n50\npages\nExplore\nWiki Content\nCommunity\n\n\nUnit Pack 2 -- Sengoku Jidai Campaign\nView source\nS2 unit pack 2\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nLink to the original thread posted on Total War Center forums (This is where you can find download links)\n\nThe second unit pack released by Radious adds 38 brand new units to the original Shogun 2 campaign making it one of the largest mods of its kind. This mod is fully compatible with all of Shogun 2's dlc's and *should* work alongside any other mods that add custom units to the game. Note: This only adds units to the default campaign and custom battles. It will not work on MP unless both parties have the mod installed.\n\nRadious published two other unit packs that correspond with the other two dlc campaigns (click to navigate to their respective pages):\n\nUnit Pack 1 -- Rise of the Samurai Campaign\nUnit Pack 3 -- Fall of the Samurai Campaign\n\nTo see specific stats and pictures of units added by this pack simply click the name of the unit you wish to view:\n\n\nContents\n1\tBow/Matchlock Units (Misc.)                                                           \n2\tCavalry\n3\tNinjas\n4\tOnna Bushi (Female Warriors)\n5\tPirates\n6\tPortuguese Tercos\n7\tSamurai\n8\tWarrior Monks\nBow/Matchlock Units (Misc.)                                                           \nBow Warrior Nuns\nMatchlock Ronin\nCavalry\nMounted Katana Ashigaru\nMounted Yari Ashigaru\nNaginata Cavalry\nYari Ronin Cavalry\nNinjas\nBow Ninjas\nKatana Ninjas\nMounted Katana Ninjas\nMounted Naginata Ninjas\nNaginata Ninjas\nNinja Hero\nTetsubo Ninjas\nYari Ninjas\nOnna Bushi (Female Warriors)\nElite Onna Bushi\nMounted Onna Bushi\nYari Onna Bushi\nPirates\nBow Pirates\nHeavy Sword Pirates\nKatana Pirates\nMounted Yari Pirates\nNaginata Pirates\nPirate Captain\nTetsubo Pirates\nYari Pirates\nPortuguese Tercos\nMounted Tercos\nPike Tercos\nSabre Tercos\nSamurai\nBow Light Samurai\nHeavy Armored Samurai\nKatana Light Samurai\nMounted Naginata Light SamuraiMounted Naginata Light SamuraiNaginiata Light Samurai\nNaginata Light Samurai\nNodachi Ronin\n<PRESIDIO_ANONYMIZED_PERSON>\nWarrior Monks\nKatana Warrior Monks\nMounted Katana Warrior Monks\nTetsubo Warrior Monks\nCommunity content is available under CC-BY-SA unless otherwise noted.\nPopular Pages\nPike Tercos\nPike Tercos\nUnit Pack 2 -- Sengoku Jidai Campaign\nUnit Pack 2 -- Sengoku Jidai Campaign\nMounted Tercos\nMounted Tercos\nSabre Tercos\nSabre Tercos\nFandom logo\nExplore properties\nFandom\nMuthead\nFanatical\nFollow Us\nOverview\nWhat is Fandom?\nAbout\nCareers\nPress\nContact\nTerms of Use\nPrivacy Policy\nDigital Services Act\nGlobal Sitemap\nLocal Sitemap\nCommunity\nCommunity Central\nSupport\nHelp\nDo Not Sell or Share My Personal Information\nAdvertise\nMedia Kit\nContact\nFandom Apps\nTake your favorite fandoms with you and never miss a beat.\nFandom App logo\nStore icon\nStore icon\nRadious Mods Wiki is a FANDOM Games Community.\nView Mobile Site\nFollow on IG\nTikTok\nJoin Fan Lab\nCheck out Fandom Quizzes and cha\nSearch this wiki\nSearch all wikis\n\nSkip to content\nWisely lead\u2026 without a head!\n\nRules for the Sengoku Jidai: Core Mechanics\nOct 15, 2020 by mmcv, posted in Feudal Japan, Rulesets\nIn my last post I gave a bit of background for my thinking on how a Sonae based Sengoku Jidai ruleset might work and some of my early experiments with it. To recap, the Sengoku Jidai refers to the period of civil war that devastated Japan in and around the 16th century. Armies were generally organised into sub units of mixed arms clans known as Sonae. The terrain of Japan meant warfare tended to favour looser formations and manoeuvre than would typically be seen elsewhere in the world at the time.\n\nFor the moment I\u2019ve settled on \u201chit dice\u201d as my randomisation method, namely rolling 4 dice, adding or removing dice based on situational modifiers, then counting any 6\u2019s as a success. In this post I hope to explore some of the core mechanics I\u2019ve been trying out; command and control, movement, combat and morale.\n\nI am writing these into a more \u201ctechnical\u201d rules document, but wanted to lay out some of the general concepts here. At the end I will have a brief pencil and paper battle report to show how some of the mechanics play out.\n\nCommand and Control\nThis refers to the means in which the players actually command their armies and give orders to commanders and units. There are essentially three levels of command. The first and lowest level is the individual units, typically a mixed arm Sonae, commanded by a Samurai-daisho (military leader) a minor Daimyo (feudal lord). These commanders are abstracted into the units themselves and assumed to be dealing with the individual allocation of troops within the Sonae.\n\nMultiple Sonae will generally be grouped together into a Te, or division. The most senior, and usually most powerful, Sonae within this division, is known as the Honjin (or headquarters Sonae), usually commanded by a senior Daimyo. This Honjin Sonae is the Commander for the entire Te, and is the one from which actions to the individual units will flow.\n\nAn army will generally consist of several of these Te with the leader of the most senior Daimyo\u2019s Te being designated the overall Army General. Unlike the Commanders who are embedded into their Honjin Sonae, the Army General is treated as a stand alone entity based separately to a Sonae, though they will usually have one or more powerful Sonae in their own Te commanded by trusted retainers, usually including a Honjin Sonae with it\u2019s own Commander. Typically there will be one Army General per side, but in large, multiplayer battles, there could potentially be multiple Army Generals, each leading their own set of divisions in coordination with their ally. This can lead to some fun possibilities for betrayal and treachery, as was common in the period.\n\nThese Army Generals may be in one of two states. The first is \u201cEncamped\u201d whereby they are based with their Maku screen and retainers, usually in a prominent but well defended position in the battle field. In this state they have powerful defensive modifiers, can send out messengers to their commanders, but cannot move themselves.\n\nThe second is \u201cMobile\u201d whereby they mount up with their personal unit of bodyguard troops, known as the Hatamoto, and become a powerful unit in their own right with rapid movement but no ability to send out messengers to commanders and a greater chance of personal injury.\n\nThe fourth Battle of Kawanakajima: Takeda Shingen Vs Uesugi Kenshin - by  Dmitry Filatov. | Takeda shingen, Samurai art, Japanese history\nThere is a somewhat fanciful story of the great rivals Uesugi Kenshin and Takeda Shingen engaging in a brief duel when Kenshin, mounted with his Hatamoto personal guard burst into the Takeda camp and engaged an unprepared Shingen, who was forced to defend with his steel war fan until his own Hatamo could drive Kenshin off. While it likely never happened, it does provide a good example of the two different ways Generals can operate.\nGiven the hierarchical clan status of the armies, the loss of a Commander will generally mean the loss of an entire division, and the loss of the Army General will usually spell the loss of the entire battle. So there is a fine balance between using these as powerful offensive units, while keeping them safe from harm at risk of collapsing the army. There is some potential around loyalty and successor mechanics that may mitigate this collapse somewhat, likely a series of Morale tests for the units and a test or special trait that allows a Commander or General to have a worthy successor to take the reigns of battle, but I\u2019ve still to shake out the details on them.\n\nEach commander (including the general) will have an Authority value representing their right to rule and the respect they hold from their retainers. This can be a positive or negative value, depending how powerful or weak they are. This value will be used to modify the number of orders that they can give. The commanders will also have a Command Radius that extends out from their unit, with Authority increasing or decreasing the range. Any units outside this Command Radius may only be given one order per activation. Any units within the General\u2019s Command Radius will gain a bonus to their Morale tests.\n\nAt the beginning of each turn the player will decide if their Army General is Encamped or Mobile. If Encamped then they may designate a Commander to send a messenger to. If both the General and Commander are out of range of any enemy units then this is decided with a simple 4 + Authority d6 check (success on at least one 6). If either is within range of the enemy, the check is opposed and must score more successes than the enemy to succeed. If successful, then that commander can add the general\u2019s Authority along with their own to their next activation. I did briefly toy with having messengers as their own units that travelled across the battlefield, but it became somewhat messy and required remembering which messenger had been directed at which commander. I suspect the messenger rules will undergo further modifications in time, for instance reducing the available dice over longer distances.\n\nActivations are dynamic. For each command a token should be placed in a bag or stack to allow for random activations. Ideally this would be a token with the clans Mon (or symbol) on it, but could equally be coloured dice or chits, a stack of cards, etc. Anything that lets the players randomly allocate command activation. Players will draw a token and whichever general that token belongs to can allocate it to a command within the army. That command then activates and performs its actions, then the next token is drawn and the process repeats. This means play can alternate back and forth between the players, or may result in one player having a run of a few activations then the other player having the same. Each command can only activate once per turn.\n\nKamon Symbols of Japan \u2014 Encyclopedia of Japan\nThe Mon of some of the better known clans in the period, this would appear prominently on banners and screens for the clan\u2019s troops. Some of the clan names in this graphic are non-standard renditions, such as Mouri (Mori) and Houjou (Hojo).\nOnce activated the command rolls a single d6, adding the appropriate Authority modifiers, and that will give the number of orders that can be given that activation. Orders can then be allocated out amongst the units under command to move, engage in combat or rally. There is no limit to the number of orders that each unit can have assigned, up to the total allocated, but those units receiving a large number of orders will have to take a morale test and on failure become fatigued and unable to take any actions the following activation.\n\nOnce all the orders have been allocated, or the player doesn\u2019t wish to allocate any more, the activation ends and the next one is drawn. Once all commands have been activated, the turn ends and the cycle begins again.\n\nMovement\nThis relates to how the units actually manoeuvre around the battlefield. My plan is to keep movement fairly simple. The distance of movement is the same for all units, though certain units will be allowed an extra move such as mounted generals. I\u2019m generally assuming the unit of movement will be around a base width, as that\u2019s usually a decent indicator of unit and table size. Each unit will have a front quarter, a rear quarter and two flank quarters, with the boundaries extending in diagonals from the unit\u2019s corners. When I say something is n Movements, it means n units of whatever the movement distance is. To make a movement a unit will be issued with a Move Order. This will allow them to do one of three things:\n\nMove directly into their forward quarter by up to 2 Movements maintaining facing. This may include charging into contact with an enemy unit.\nFall back into their rear quarter by 1 Movement maintaining facing. If this is given to a unit in combat they must take a Morale check after doing so.\nChange facing to a different quarter and make up to 1 Movement in the new direction of facing. This covers all manoeuvring, whether it be changing facing and remaining in place, or moving in a new direction.\nUnits may be issued any number of Move Orders so long as the commander has Orders to allocate and they begin the orders within the Command Radius of the commander.\n\nTerrain will have some impact on movement, essentially difficult terrain will only allow one Movement forward rather than two and roads allow an extra Movement when going forward or back along it. These rules still need a bit more experimentation. It may be that difficult terrain ends all movement for that unit for that activation and they cannot be given any more Move Orders.\n\nCharging Mounted Samurai\nMassed cavalry charges were rare in Japanese warfare of the period, but small groups of mounted samurai could turn the tide of battle when striking the right place at the right time.\nGiven the fixed distances, the rules as written could be easily translated to a square or hex grid. I\u2019ve been playing out test games on gridded notepaper (mostly because it\u2019s all I have to hand with everything packed away to sell our house) and it\u2019s worked reasonably well, but overall the fluidity of free measurement will provide a much more satisfying range of movement options.\n\nRanged Combat\nThere are two types of combat in the game. The first, and generally less effective, is Ranged Combat. This represents the proportion of bows and guns within a unit. While bows and guns of the period had a theoretical range of 300-500 metres, in reality the effective range against armour was around 50-100 metres. Over time as the proportion of guns increased, firepower became more effective, but was still primarily used as a means of defence, behind screens and fortifications, or for softening up an enemy before the charge into melee for offensive actions.\n\nStandard Ranged Combat will work as an exchange between two units at a range of 2 Movements or less. Most units will have some means of firing, even if its just a few samurai with bows and guns. There will be modifiers available to units, typically ranging from -2 to 2 that can reflect the proportion of guns and firing capacity. In a Ranged Combat exchange, both units will roll their ranged attack dice, hitting on 6s then total up the number of hits inflicted. The default number of attack dice is four, though the modifiers mentioned previously along with a few other special conditions (e.g. firing up a hill would be -1, while firing at close range would be +1) can modify these dice up and down.\n\nAny side that receives at least one hit must make a Morale test, which will be described later but essentially consists of throwing four dice (+/- modifiers) with at least one 6 needed for a pass. For each additional hit past the first one in the Ranged Exchange, a dice is removed from the Morale test. So if a sonae of the Ouchi engages a sonae of the Mori in a ranged attack, both players would roll their attack dice. If the Ouchi rolled three 6s and the Mori rolled one 6, then both sides would be required to take a Morale test, but the Mori would do so with 2 less dice than normal due to the two additional hits.\n\nFailing a Morale test from a ranged attack results in a unit status change. A unit that is fresh and in good spirits will become Wavering, which will somewhat impair their ability to fight in Close Combat. A unit that is already Wavering will become Brittle, which impairs them further still. A unit that is already Brittle will break and be removed from the battle. This means a ranged exchange is unlikely to cause serious damage unless a unit is already in dire straights. There will be a Rally mechanic described later to remove these statuses.\n\nRanged Ashigaru\nMost ranged combat was done by sub units of Ashigaru peasant soldiers armed with matchlock \u201cteppo\u201d guns and light weight long bows known as \u201cyumi\u201d, though samurai would often have guns and bows as their primary weapons well. Indeed the yumi was the traditional primary weapon of samurai in earlier periods before massed peasant infantry and firearms became the norm.\nExceptions to this standard exchange are when engaging from the flank, in which case only half your attack dice can be used, or from the rear, in which case only one attack dice can be used. There is also the possibility of Opportunity Fire, the exact details of which are still under review, but will generally allow a unit to take unopposed pot shots at anyone entering firing range. I\u2019m still not entirely sure on this given the exchange nature of standard firing, it\u2019s mostly a means to prevent units skipping along the front of the enemy without consequence, but I may instead implement some form of Zone of Control on movement that prevents this instead. The other type of firing is Closing Fire, which I\u2019ll cover shortly as part of the Close Combat exchange.\n\nClose Combat\nClose combat consists of up to four phases, Charging, Closing Fire, Melee and Shock. Charging is covered under the movement rules and is a movement that ends in contact with an enemy unit. The unit that initiated the charge will gain an extra dice in the first round of Melee. If a unit is Wavering it must pass a Morale test before charging and a Brittle unit cannot charge at all.\n\nThe defending unit may choose to use Closing Fire, that is an unopposed ranged attack, i.e. only the defender rolls their attack dice. If it is successful in hitting the charger, and the charger fails the Morale test then the new status is applied, the charge will be cancelled and the charger will fall back or pull up 1 Movement short of the enemy unit. However, if the charger is unharmed, the defender will have one less attack dice to use in the following round of Melee combat. This is to simulate the delay in bringing up the melee troops while firing at the charging unit.\n\nThe Charge and Closing Fire occur as part of the normal cycle of Orders, but Melee doesn\u2019t occur until the end of the Activation. This allows all movements and ranged attacks to be carried out first, then all close combat will be resolved.\n\nThe Melee Phase involves both participants rolling their attack dice, modified as needed, with different results depending on the outcome. If both units fail to make any successful hits, then each will fall back 1 Movement to their rear quarter. If this movement is blocked, for instance by another unit or a terrain feature, they must instead take a Morale test and apply the appropriate status if failed. If both units make the same number of hits, they remain locked in combat and nothing else happens for them until the next time one of their commands is activated. If one side manages to make more successful hits than the other, that side is considered the victor and may move onto the Shock Phase.\n\nThe Shock Phase is representative of the elite troops, such as the samurai, exploiting a weakness opened up by the melee and rushing in to try and destroy the enemy command. In the Shock Phase the victor rolls their attack dice modified by any shock modifiers they may have (typically terrain affects the impetus of the shock phase more than the melee) with the outcome depending on how many successes they have.\n\nWith one success the enemy unit is destroyed but the attacker is Fatigued.\n\nWith two successes the enemy unit is destroyed and the attacker is not Fatigued.\n\nWith three or more successes the enemy unit is destroyed, the attacker is not Fatigued and gets a bonus order to use immediately.\n\nThe number of orders may increase with increased success, to be confirmed, and the destruction on one success might be too powerful, so one success may apply a status while two success destroys, etc. These are details to be ironed out in play testing.\n\nArtwork of battle\nCombat in the period often ended in bloody and brutal close combat.\nWhere multiple units are engaged, all dice are rolled together. This is the most \u201cbucket o\u2019 dice\u201d part of the rules, but means large engagements can be dealt with quickly, and makes multi unit melee combats very dangerous, especially if Commanders are involved.\n\nFlank and rear attacks also behave a little differently. There is no Closing Fire when attacking a flank or rear of the unit, and the defending unit cannot use a Shock Phase if it is engaged to the flank or rear, instead if it is victorious in the Melee Phase, the attackers both fall back 1 Movement. This is because an attack at a weak point of the formation would usually be reinforced by the samurai core of the unit, meaning they\u2019ve less momentum to carry out a destructive counter attack immediately and instead just drive the attacker off. Any unit attacking the rear gains an additional attack dice as well as that was usually the weakest point of a formation.\n\nMorale\nAs mentioned in previous sections, each unit will have a certain amount of Morale that it can use to show how resilient it is to breaking. All units have the same potential Morale statuses, Wavering and Brittle, though how those statuses affect different areas of the game will vary. Morale tests are called for in a number of circumstances where the resolve of the unit needs tested. Morale tests behave the same way as other tests in the game, a number of dice, four by standard, are thrown with at least one 6 being required to make it a success. Some units may have Resilience modifiers that can increase or decrease their morale dice, and having the Army General within range can provide an extra morale boost too.\n\nOne of the orders available to a commander is a Rally Order. With this a unit that is not in attack range of an enemy unit (i.e. typically 2 Movements away) and within the Command Radius of it\u2019s Commander, may perform a Morale test and if successful, can reduce their negative statuses. So a Brittle unit that passes it\u2019s Rally Morale test will become Wavering, and a Wavering unit that passes loses the negative status and returns to being fresh and ready for action.\n\n\nFacing this sort of devastation would shake the morale of even the loyalist of samurai, let alone the peasant masses.\nThere are still some balancing tests needed with morale, for instance having the presence and loss of nearby units impacting the roll or requiring additional tests, but for the moment I\u2019m keeping it reasonably simple.\n\nOther Considerations\nThere are a few areas that still need some thought and consideration. I\u2019m still testing out various options for moving through and fighting over different terrain. Given the varied landscapes of Japan I don\u2019t want this to be too much of an imposition, but certainly particularly rugged ground should impose some limitations and fordable rivers appear in a fair few battles of the period so they are important to consider too.\n\nDefensive works is another area that needs some thought. It was quite common for armies in the period to entrench into a defensive position, especially as the ratio of guns increased in armies allowing them increased concentrations of fire. This is definitely something I want to include, either as fixed terrain pieces on the battlefield or as a \u201cdig in\u201d option for a unit. I need to do some more reading on this before deciding how to represent them though.\n\nAssaulting a defensive line\nDefensive works were commonly employed on the battlefields of Japan, often made from bamboo or bundles of reed mats. By the later period, concentrations of firepower would make assaulting such defensive works head-on suicidal.\nBeyond that there are a number of special rules and traits I want to include. I\u2019ve already got an outline of many of these as a means of conferring special abilities on Generals, Commanders and individual Clan units. I want to be reasonably cautious with these to avoid it becoming a bit too video gamey or \u201cHollywood\u201d, but I do wish to include some means to highlight leaders who stood out from their peers through tactical or strategic brilliance, or lack thereof, as well as clans that specialised in particular types of combat or weaponry, or were particularly loyal and devoted. There\u2019s also some consideration to be given to the numerous sects of fanatic warrior monks throughout the period and peasant rebellions. I\u2019m not focusing too much on these until I\u2019m completely happy with the core mechanics, though have plenty of ideas for how they could work.\n\nFormations is another thing that needs more consideration \u2013 both the individual makeup of the sonae and how they organise themselves internally, as well as the larger formation of the entire army. For the sonae themselves, different formations may confer different sets of modifiers, for instance aggressive or defensive formations, or those focusing on concentrating firepower, while for army wide formations, I\u2019d be inclined to leave them up to the whim of the players as if I get things right they should \u201cjust work\u201d as they were intended given the way the battles play out. We shall see!\n\nBeyond that I\u2019ll want to consider some \u201cmeta\u201d play around a campaign system, or some means of playing linked battles, as well as some strategic considerations around scouting and espionage that may aid with deployment and game set up. The idea is allow for both historical battles and ones of the players own devising covering various possible scenarios from a straight up fight, through defensive actions or taking of key objectives. I\u2019ve not decided if I\u2019ll look at sieges or not yet, though castle assaults were a common feature of the warfare.\n\nBattle Report\nThis is one of my pencil and paper test games played out on gridded paper to try out some of these core mechanics. In it, the fictional Maru (circle) and Shikaku (square) clans engage in a clash for control of a key river crossing. I rolled for random entry points across the game area rather than having everyone come in from opposite sides, this felt natural given the mustering of troops tended to involve calling in subject clans. Each army consists of three divisions, marked 1, 2 and 3, so for the purpose of this I will refer to them as the divisions as Maru-ichi (in the south centre), Maru-ni (north centre) and Maru-san (north west), then Shikaku-ichi (west centre), Shikaku-ni (south east) and Shikaku-san (north east). The notations is as follows:\n\nGm = Mobile General (bonus to movement and attack, negative firing)\nGe = Encamped General (bonus to everything, messengers but no movement)\nC = command sonae (bonus to everything)\nX = normal sonae\nF = firing focused sonae (bonus firing, negative melee)\nM = melee focused sonae (bonus melee, negative shock)\nS = shock focused sonae (bonus shock, negative firing)\nf = fatigued\nw = wavering\nb = brittle\n\nHopefully the hills, forest, river, stream, bridge and marsh are self explanatory. The position of the number indicates facing and the negative number on commands indicate lost units.\n\n\nIn the opening turn the Maru-san clan attempts to skirt around the Shikaku-ichi position to link up with their General, however they soon come in range of the enemy gunners stationed on the hill.\n\nIn the south, the Maru-ichi General moves to fortify a hill opposite the Shikaku position. Meanwhile the Shikaku-ni clan rushes towards the bridge to seize the objective and support their allies. In the north the outnumbered Shikaku-san clan attempt to secure their flank on the forest and present a line of attack to funnel the Maru-ni enemy into.\n\nThe Maru-san find themselves pinned down by enemy fire as the Shikaku General brings his troops to bear on their slow advance. Feeling the pinch on their flanks the Maru-san turn to engage. In the north east, after several exchanges of fire, an impetuous rush by a Maru-ni daisho drives some of the Shikaku-san from the field, and feeling the potential for encirclement growing, the Shikaku-san pull back into a better defensive position.\n\nNot wishing to relent on the pressure, the Maru-ni keep pressing the beleaguered Shikaku-san, while the unopposed Shikaku-ni set up a solid defence between the stream and river. Frustrated by the fire from the hill, the Maru-san charge the Shikaku General\u2019s position. The Shikaku-ichi manage to stall them at the foot of the hill, but the Maru-ichi take advantage of the exposed southern flank of the Shikaku position and storm the hill from there.\n\nAttacked from multiple sides the Shikaku-ichi begin to collapse and the General abandons the camp and flees for the defensive lines of the Shikaku-ni. However, the Maru-ni advance crushes the Shikaku-san in the north and begins to sweep down towards the open end of the Shikaku-ni position, while the rest of the Maru forces begin their advance towards the stream.\n\nThe Shikaku fall back over the bridge, hoping the choke point will let them wear down the enemy, but the Maru forces sweep in from all sides.\n\nThe assault on the bridge begins and while the Shikaku forces put up a brave fight, they are now heavily outnumbered by the Maru attack.\n\nIn an epic clash, the elite shock troops of the Maru-ichi break the bridge defence while the constant fire exchange across the river wears down and eventually breaks several of the Shikaku defenders. With his army broken and troops fleeing the field, the Shikaku general signals the retreat and slinks off the field in disgrace. The day has gone to the Maru, and they have secured control of a vital point between the rival lands.\nThis was a lot of fun as a game, the narrative flowed easily from the mechanics and while there were a few points were I had to tweak bits or come up with rules for things on the fly, it really helped me refine down some of the mechanics, and determine what did and didn\u2019t work.\n\nSummary\nTo conclude, in this post we covered:\n\nCommand and Control: the role of commanders and how the dynamic activation and order system works, as well as the role of messengers on the field.\nMovement: how movement is determined and the different types of movements available.\nCombat: both ranged and melee combat and the opposed roll system they use.\nMorale: how units test for morale and rally from their various states of disorder.\nDiscussed other areas for expansion and thought once core mechanics are settled.\nFinally finished with a pencil and paper test game and report on how it went.\nI\u2019m not sure what my next post on this will be, as the next stage is probably play testing and refinement, then looking at some of the special rules. No doubt you\u2019ll see some Feudal Japanese forces creep into my painting queue in the coming year in 3mm, 6mm and/or 10mm, along with some more test game battle reports.\n\nThoughts and suggestions are always welcome, I\u2019ve only been in the hobby a few years and don\u2019t have that many games under my belt, so any pitfalls or glaring omissions I\u2019d be interested in knowing about, so please share!\n\nAs ever, thanks for reading,\n\nMatthew\n\nShare this:\nTwitterFacebook\n\nRelated\nRules for the Sengoku Jidai: Revamped\nJun 8, 2021\nIn \"Battle Report\"\nRules for the Sengoku Jidai\nOct 11, 2020\nIn \"Feudal Japan\"\nProgress Update \u2013 July 2021\nAug 2, 2021\nIn \"Feudal Japan\"\nTagged 2D Gaming, Feudal Japan, Pencil and Paper, Rulesets, Wargaming\nPost navigation\nPrevious Post\nRules for the Sengoku Jidai\nNext Post\nBattle Report \u2013 Oda vs Asai\n4 thoughts on \u201cRules for the Sengoku Jidai: Core Mechanics\u201d\nPingback: Battle Report \u2013 Oda vs Asai \u2013 Wisely lead\u2026 without a head!\nPingback: Progress Update \u2013 March 2021 \u2013 Wisely lead\u2026 without a head!\nMr David Ford\nOct 19, 2021 at 6:07 pm\nGreat Stuff \ud83d\ude42\n\nLike\n\nReply\nmmcv\nOct 20, 2021 at 10:08 am\nThanks David, I have revised some of these since this post, some of which is included in this post: https://mmcvhistory.home.blog/2021/06/08/rules-for-the-sengoku-jidai-revamped/\n\nWhich is why some of the bits here are a little different from what we had been chatting about elsewhere. The primary change is the combination of Morale, Fatigue and Ranged Combat into a single Fatigue/Loyalty mechanic.\n\nLike\n\nReply\nLeave a comment\nTop Posts & Pages\nA Very British Civil War in Ireland\nIs it an eagle? Is it a jaguar? No...\nBattle Report - The Battle of Dorylaeum (1097)\nRules for the Sengoku Jidai: Core Mechanics\nAVNICW Faction: The Loyal Democratic State of Northern Ireland\nCategories\nBattle Report (22)\nGeneral (12)\nHistory (6)\nCrusades (5)\nPeriods & Projects (57)\n2D Armies (3)\nAncient China (8)\nBronze Age (9)\nClassical Period (7)\nColonial (3)\nEarly 20th Century (7)\nFantasy (2)\nFeudal Japan (15)\nLate 19th Century (3)\nMedieval (14)\nPike & Shot (11)\nPre-Columbian America (10)\nTerrain (3)\nProgress update (28)\nRulesets (13)\nTags\n2D Gaming 2mm 10mm Ancient China AVBCW AWI Battle Board Battle Report BBB Bronze Age Celts Chu Classical Period Crusaders Early 20th Century English Civil War Factions Fantasy Feudal Japan Flippant History General Great War Greeks Han History Introduction Irish History Late 19th Century Medieval Miniatures Napoleonics Pencil and Paper Pre-Columbian America Qin Reflections Romans Rulesets Saracens Shadow of the Eagles Sharp Practice Ships Showcase Skirmish Games Soldiers of God Tarascans Terrain TooFatLardies To the Strongest Trojan War Turks Twilight of Divine Right Twilight of the Sun King Wargaming Zombicide\nBlogs I Follow\nwe all have our roles to play\nBogenwald\nCooking Without Limits\nA Sincere Love of Food\nWARdROBE Plays WWII\nMark A. Morin\nSkarloc\u00b4s\nTENKA FUBU\n\nFollow Blog via E-mail\nEnter your e-mail address to follow this blog and receive notifications of new posts by e-mail.\n\nEmail Address:\nEmail Address\n\nFollow\n\nBlog at WordPress.com.Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information\nPrivacy & Cookies: This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this website, you agree to their use.\nTo find out more, including how to control cookies, see here: Cookie Policy\nDesign a site like this with WordPress.com\nGet started\nAssistant: Creating a list of Sengoku Era samurai troop units for your For Honor roleplay Discord server can help enhance the realism and immersion for your mass combat scenarios. Here's a list of potential troop units you can consider, tailored to fit a gun-free setting:\n\n### Infantry Units\n1. **Yari Ashigaru** - Foot soldiers armed with long spears; form the backbone of the army.\n2. **Naginata Ashigaru** - Infantry wielding polearms, versatile in both offense and defense.\n3. **Katana Ashigaru** - Swordsmen serving as support troops, skilled in melee combat.\n\n### Samurai Units\n1. **Yari Samurai** - Elite spear-wielding troops, superior to Ashigaru in skill and armor.\n2. **Katana Samurai** - Highly skilled swordsmen, forming the core of offensive charges.\n3. **Naginata Samurai** - Versatile warriors wielding the naginata, capable against cavalry and infantry alike.\n4. **Ronin** - Masterless samurai, often mercenaries, who can be hired for their unique skills.\n\n### Cavalry Units\n1. **Takeda Cavalry** - Elite horsemen known for their speed and powerful charges with yari.\n2. **Mounted Samurai** - Skilled horseback warriors, even more deadly when charging with katana or naginata.\n3. **Bow Cavalry** - Mounted archers skilled in hit-and-run tactics, using yumi (bows) from horseback.\n\n### Archer Units\n1. **Yumi Ashigaru** - Foot archers forming ranged support, helping soften enemy troops.\n2. **Bow Samurai** - Elite archers with superior skill and equipment compared to Ashigaru.\n3. **Kyudo Masters** - Samurai dedicated to the way of the bow, providing precise and powerful ranged attacks.\n\n### Specialist Units\n1. **Sohei (Warrior Monks)** - Religious warriors skilled in martial arts and naginata.\n2. **Onna-Bugeisha** - Female warriors trained in the use of the naginata and bow.\n3. **Kunoichi (Female Ninjas)** - Specialists in espionage and guerrilla tactics, capable of sabotage.\n\n### Support Units\n1. **Standard Bearers** - Carry the clan's banner, boosting morale and organization.\n2. **Drummers** - Keep rhythm to coordinate troop movements and boost morale.\n3. **Strategists** - Advisors skilled in planning and executing battlefield strategies.\n\n### Unique Units\n1. **Hatamoto** - The personal guard of generals and commanders, elite bodyguards.\n2. **Champion Duelists** - Expert swordsmen available for challenges and duels on the battlefield.\n3. **Berserkers** - Warriors who enter frenzied states, unstoppable in close combat until exhausted.\n\nThese units can be used to create engaging and dynamic mass combat scenarios that reflect the diversity and strategy of Sengoku Era warfare without relying on firearms. Adjust details according to any specific game mechanics or lore within your For Honor roleplay setting.\nUser: Expand the list, and remove any gun units. Make it for honor fitting too (keeping immersive aspect): \n\nTotal War Wiki\nTotal War Wiki\nExplore\nTroy\nThree Kingdoms\nHistorical Games\nSpin-offs\n FANDOM\nFan Central\nBETA\nGames\nAnime\nMovies\nTV\nVideo\nWikis\nStart a Wiki\nSign In\nRegister\nTotal War Wiki\nTotal War Wiki\n5,228\npages\nExplore\nTroy\nThree Kingdoms\nHistorical Games\nSpin-offs\n\nin: Total War: Shogun 2 cavalry\nYari Cavalry (Total War: Shogun 2)\nEdit\nFor the Shogun: Total War unit, see Yari Cavalry (Shogun: Total War).\n\nYari Cavalry S2TW Icon\n\nYari Cavalry\nYari Cavalry S2TW\nAppears in\nTotal War: Shogun 2\nBelongs to\nMost factions\nType\nSpear Cavalry\nSoldiers per unit\n20/40/60/80\nAttack skill\n5\nCharge bonus\n25\nAnti-cavalry skill\n15\nArmour\n4 (Mounted)/4 (Dismounted)\nDefense skill\n1\nMorale\n10\nProduced from\nWarhorse Stables, Yari Drill Yard\nSpecial abilities\nWedge Formation\nCost\n800 SP/850 MP\nUpkeep\n200\nTurns to train\n2\nUnit cap\nNone\nYari Cavalry are a type of yari cavalry in Total War: Shogun 2.\n\nDescription\nEach yari cavalry samurai is armed with a long spear that makes him particularly deadly when swiftly charging into combat.\n\nYari cavalry focus all the power of their fearsome charge into the points of the long spears they carry as they smash into enemy cavalry and infantry alike. Their high morale spurs them into battle and keeps them from routing, even when engaged in melee, where their spears are at a disadvantage. Yari cavalry are best used to attack the rear or flanks of infantry to avoid spear counter-attacks and getting caught in messy, close-quarters fighting. Their amazing speed over the ground makes this entirely possible, as they can rarely be caught even by other cavalry units.\n\nDuring the Sengoku Jidai, the spear and sword superseded the bow as the weapons of choice for samurai cavalry. Despite a long tradition of mounted archery, a bow could not be used in melee, leaving cavalry archers vulnerable to counter-attacks by foot soldiers. Spears, on the other hand, could be used to break enemy defences in a full charge, or used in quick, slashing strokes whilst in close combat. Swords could be used to cut an enemy down, but obviously lacked the range of a bow, or spear. However, if a samurai was wealthy enough, he would have an attendant to carry and hand him his bow, spear or sword, depending on the situation and personal preference.\n\nStrengths & Weaknesses\n\nFast and very good charge.\nGood against other cavalry.\nWeak in prolonged melee.\nVulnerable to yari and naginata units in melee.\nGeneral Information\nYari Cavalry are mid-late game cavalry, boasting a powerful charge bonus but only average melee stats. They replace light cavalry, being superior in nearly every way but at the cost of higher upkeep and recruitment costs. Their anti-cavalry bonus and high speed make them excellent for hunting down enemy cavalry, and their high charge bonus allow them to disrupt enemy formations with ease. However, like all cavalry, they are weak to anti-cavalry infantry, and are also highly susceptible to ranged attacks, particularly Fire Rockets. \n\nTwo units of yari cavalry, along with a unit of Great Guard, are granted to any faction that becomes Shogun. This includes the Ikko Ikki, who normally don't have access to yari cavalry.\n\nWhen trained by the Date Clan, Yari Cavalry have +2 charge bonus.\n\nTakeda Yari Cavalry are cheaper to train and maintain (at 700/175 instead of 800/200), have +2 morale, +3 melee attack, +1 melee defence, and +5 charge bonus. They are slightly worse than Takeda Fire Cavalry in almost every way, but have a better charge bonus.\n\nTotal War: Shogun 2 Cavalry\nSpear Cavalry\tGreat Guard \u2022 Light Cavalry \u2022 Takeda Fire Cavalry \u2022 The Spears of Shizugatake \u2022 Yari Cavalry \u2022 Yari Dojo Cavalry\nPolearm Cavalry\tNaginata Warrior Monk Cavalry\nSword Cavalry\tGeneral \u2022 Katana Cavalry \u2022 Kiyomasa\u2019s Katana Cavalry\nMissile Cavalry\tBow Cavalry \u2022 Donderbuss Cavalry \u2022 Tokugawa Mounted Gunners \u2022 Yoritomo\u2019s Yabusame Cavalry\nCategories\nCategories:Total War: Shogun 2 cavalryAdd category\nCommunity content is available under CC-BY-SA unless otherwise noted.\nCommunity Chat\n9 Users Online\nUsers\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nJoin Now!\nOthers Like You Also Viewed\nLight Cavalry (Total War: Shogun 2)\nLight Cavalry (Total War: Shogun 2)\nTakeda Fire Cavalry\nTakeda Fire Cavalry\nNaginata Warrior Monk Cavalry\nNaginata Warrior Monk Cavalry\nKatana Cavalry\nKatana Cavalry\nNaginata Warrior Monks (Total War: Shogun 2)\nNaginata Warrior Monks (Total War: Shogun 2)\nDonderbuss Cavalry\nDonderbuss Cavalry\nKiyomasa\u2019s Katana Cavalry\nKiyomasa\u2019s Katana Cavalry\nYari Ashigaru (Total War: Shogun 2)\nYari Ashigaru (Total War: Shogun 2)\nBenkei\u2019s Blades\nBenkei\u2019s Blades\n\nPopular Pages\nFactions (Total War: Three Kingdoms)\nFactions (Total War: Three Kingdoms)\nFall of the Samurai\nFall of the Samurai\nTotal War: Three Kingdoms\nTotal War: Three Kingdoms\nTraits (Total War: Three Kingdoms)\nTraits (Total War: Three Kingdoms)\nTotal War: Shogun 2\nTotal War: Shogun 2\nFandom logo\nExplore properties\nFandom\nMuthead\nFanatical\nFollow Us\nOverview\nWhat is Fandom?\nAbout\nCareers\nPress\nContact\nTerms of Use\nPrivacy Policy\nDigital Services Act\nGlobal Sitemap\nLocal Sitemap\nCommunity\nCommunity Central\nSupport\nHelp\nDo Not Sell or Share My Personal Information\nAdvertise\nMedia Kit\nContact\nFandom Apps\nTake your favorite fandoms with you and never miss a beat.\nFandom App logo\nStore icon\nStore icon\nTotal War Wiki is a FANDOM Games Community.\nView Mobile Site\nFollow on IG\nTikTok\nJoin Fan Lab\nCheck out Fandom Quizzes and cha\nSearch this wiki\nSearch all wikis\nAssistant: Here's an expanded and immersive list of Sengoku Era samurai troop units suitable for a For Honor roleplay setting, ensuring no gunpowder weapons are included:\n\n### Infantry Units\n1. **Yari Ashigaru** - Basic spear infantry, well-suited for forming spear walls and ranked formations.\n2. **Naginata Ashigaru** - Versatile polearm infantry capable of defending against both cavalry and infantry.\n3. **Katana Ashigaru** - Skilled in close-quarters combat, offering flexibility on the battlefield.\n\n### Samurai Units\n1. **Yari Samurai** - Elite warriors known for their mastery of the spear, excelling in organized combat.\n2. **Katana Samurai** - Highly skilled with swords, forming the offensive forefront of any army.\n3. **Naginata Samurai** - Balanced fighters capable of both offense and defense, adept against cavalry charges.\n4. **Ronin** - Masterless samurai with unpredictable fighting skills, available for hire or rebellion.\n5. **Dual Wield Samurai** - Samurai proficient in wielding two swords, offering greater attack flexibility.\n\n### Cavalry Units\n1. **Yari Cavalry** - Fast-moving spear cavalry, perfect for flanking maneuvers and pursuing fleeing enemies.\n2. **Katana Cavalry** - Mounted swordsmen skilled in slashing down opponents in fast charges.\n3. **Takeda Cavalry** - Renowned for their speed and discipline, often leading devastating charges.\n4. **Mounted Samurai** - Expert horsemen, combining mobility with the deadly efficiency of a samurai's skill.\n\n### Archer Units\n1. **Yumi Ashigaru** - Infantry archers providing essential ranged support for large formations.\n2. **Bow Samurai** - Elite archers with greater range and accuracy, capable of precision strikes.\n3. **Kyudo Masters** - Expert bow users who are revered for their discipline and shooting accuracy.\n\n### Specialist Units\n1. **Sohei (Warrior Monks)** - Religious warriors with spiritual ferocity, skilled in hand-to-hand combat and naginata use.\n2. **Onna-Bugeisha** - Female samurai trained in martial arts and weaponry, offering unique strategic capabilities.\n3. **Battlefield Tacticians** - Provide strategic maneuvers and battlefield insights, enhancing the effectiveness of allied units.\n\n### Support Units\n1. **Standard Bearers** - Bolster the morale and organization of troops with the clan's emblem.\n2. **Drummers** - Coordinate troop movements and elevate combat spirit through rhythm.\n3. **Strategists** - Masters of battlefield tactics, aiding in the planning and execution of complex maneuvers.\n\n### Unique Units\n1. **Hatamoto** - Elite bodyguards of high-ranking officials, unswervingly loyal and fiercely protective.\n2. **Champion Duelists** - Experts in one-on-one combat, challenging enemy leaders and inspiring allies.\n3. **Berserkers** - Possessed by a fierce fighting spirit, causing chaos in the enemy ranks.\n\n### Siege Units\n1. **Siege Engineers** - Specialists in constructing and dismantling fortifications during castle sieges.\n2. **Logistical Support Teams** - Ensure the supply lines remain intact and the army stays well-fed and ready.\n\nThis list emphasizes the traditional aspects of Sengoku period warfare, focusing on melee and cavalry tactics, as well as the strategic deployment of troops. It aligns well with the immersive, close-combat focus typical of a For Honor-style setting.\nUser: Can you possibly also make better names for some of the units instead of just weapon_type \"samurai/ashigaru,\" for the fhu.\nUser: Not like that, keep it realistic and immersive and japanese sengoku.\nAssistant: Certainly! Here's an enhanced list with more thematic and unique names for the Sengoku Era troops suitable for a \"For Honor\" roleplay server:\n\n### Infantry Units\n1. **Spear Sentinels (Yari Ashigaru)** - Stalwart defenders holding the line with unwavering resolve.\n2. **Blade Reapers (Naginata Ashigaru)** - Swift-footed skirmishers brandishing their polearms with lethal grace.\n3. **Steel Sworn (Katana Ashigaru)** - Sword-bearing infantry with oaths of valor and courage.\n\n### Samurai Units\n1. **Pike Vanguard (Yari Samurai)** - Elite guardians whose spears are the harbinger of order on the battlefield.\n2. **Crimson Edge (Katana Samurai)** - Noble warriors whose blades sing songs of honor and bloodshed.\n3. **Halberd Harbingers (Naginata Samurai)** - Ensuring no foe's charge goes unanswered with their daunting reach.\n4. **Wayward Blades (Ronin)** - Masterless samurai whose unpredictable allegiance is matched only by their skill.\n5. **Twin Fury (Dual Wield Samurai)** - Samurai who bring a dance of death to the fray with a sword in each hand.\n\n### Cavalry Units\n1. **Swift Lancers (Yari Cavalry)** - Mounted spear wielders who strike with the speed and force of the gale.\n2. **Dawn Riders (Katana Cavalry)** - Charging into battle at first light, their katanas gleam with the sun's promise.\n3. **Thunder Hooves (Takeda Cavalry)** - Known for their thunderous charges that echo the might of their clan.\n4. **Steedbound Samurai (Mounted Samurai)** - A union of beast and blade, they are the epitome of mounted warfare.\n\n### Archer Units\n1. **Arrow Storm (Yumi Ashigaru)** - Their volleys darken the skies, a harbinger of the rain of arrows to come.\n2. **Eagle Eye (Bow Samurai)** - With a gaze as sharp as their aim, no target is beyond their bow's reach.\n3. **Silent Whisper (Kyudo Masters)** - The bowstring's hush is the last sound heard by those who meet their mark.\n\n### Specialist Units\n1. **Temple Guardians (Sohei)** - Warrior Monks protecting sacred lands with fervent might and spiritual fire.\n2. **Maidens of War (Onna-Bugeisha)** - Female samurai whose presence on the field rewrites the tales of war.\n3. **Enigma Strategists (Battlefield Tacticians)** - Masters of warcraft whose calculated decisions turn the tides of conflict.\n\n### Support Units\n1. **Banner Bearers (Standard Bearers)** - Carrying the soul of the army, they bolster hearts and steel resolve.\n2. **Heartbeat Drummers (Drummers)** - Their rhythm syncs with the pulse of the battlefield, orchestrating the chaos of war.\n3. **War Sages (Strategists)** - Veterans of countless battles whose knowledge shapes empires and fates.\n\n### Unique Units\n1. **Shadow Shields (Hatamoto)** - Elite protectors whose loyalty is as unbreakable as their defense.\n2. **Duelist's Echo (Champion Duelists)** - The challenge of their blade echoes across fields, beckoning honorable combat.\n3. **Ragekindled (Berserkers)** - Fury-fueled titans for whom battle is a trance of destruction.\n\n### Siege Units\n1. **Castlebreakers (Siege Engineers)** - The architects of victory, skilled in breaching the walls that dare stand against them.\n2. **Provision Wardens (Logistical Support Teams)** - The unseen backbone, ensuring the army\u2019s might never wanes from hunger or need.\n\nThese thematic names not only enhance the immersive aspect of your server but also lend a sense of individuality and lore to each unit, enriching the roleplay experience for your participants.\nUser: Not like that, keep it realistic and immersive and japanese sengoku.\nAssistant:"},{"assistant_initiates":false,"asst_text":"Certainly! Let's keep the names authentic and aligned with the Sengoku Era:\n\n### Infantry Units\n1. **Ashigaru Yari-ta** (Spearmen Levy) - Basic infantry wielding yari, essential for forming defensive lines.\n2. **Ashigaru Nambancho** (Polearm Guards) - Infantry using naginata, adept at engaging both cavalry and foot soldiers.\n3. **Ashigaru Kachi** (Foot Soldiers) - Swordsmen skilled in melee, offering flexible support across the battlefield.\n\n### Samurai Units\n1. **Yari no Bushi** (Spearmen Samurai) - Elite samurai warriors, masters of spear combat with disciplined formation fighting.\n2. **Katana no Samurai** (Sword Samurai) - Sword-wielding samurai, forming the core of offensive assaults with their deadly precision.\n3. **Naginata no Samurai** (Polearm Samurai) - Balanced fighters with naginata, adept at disrupting enemy formations.\n4. **R\u014dnin** (Masterless Samurai) - Independent warriors without a lord, known for their battle prowess and unpredictability.\n5. **Futatsu no Tsurugi no Samurai** (Samurai of Two Swords) - Dual-wielding samurai who excel in swift and aggressive combat.\n\n### Cavalry Units\n1. **Yari Kiba-tai** (Lancer Cavalry) - Mounted warriors with yari, famed for their speed and effectiveness in flanking maneuvers.\n2. **Bajo Samurai** (Mounted Samurai) - Samurai adept at fighting on horseback, embodying both mobility and combat prowess.\n3. **Takeda no Kiba-musha** (Takeda Horse Warriors) - Notorious for their disciplined cavalry charges that break enemy lines.\n\n### Archer Units\n1. **Yumi Ashigaru** (Bow Infantry) - Common archers providing crucial ranged support for larger formations.\n2. **Yumi no Samurai** (Archery Samurai) - Skilled archers with superior accuracy and range, offering precise support.\n3. **Ky\u016bjutsu no Meijin** (Masters of the Bow) - Esteemed archers renowned for their dedication to the discipline of kyudo.\n\n### Specialist Units\n1. **Sohei** (Warrior Monks) - Monastic warriors blending martial arts and spiritual conviction, wielding naginata or staves.\n2. **Onna-bugeisha** (Female Warriors) - Female fighters trained in combat arts, serving in defensive roles or as impactful warriors.\n3. **Gunshi** (Military Strategists) - Tactical advisors who influence the battle with their strategic planning and foresight.\n\n### Support Units\n1. **Hata-jirushi Mochi** (Banner Bearers) - Carry the emblems of their lords, boosting troop morale and cohesion.\n2. **Taiko Mochi** (Drummers) - Regulate marching rhythms and rally troops with the beat of their drums.\n3. **Senryaku-sha** (Tactical Advisors) - Assist commanders with battlefield insights and strategic coordination.\n\n### Unique Units\n1. **Hatamoto** (Vassal Guard) - Trusted retainers, forming the personal guard of high-ranking leaders.\n2. **Keng\u014d** (Sword Saints) - Legendary duelists known for their unmatched skill in one-on-one combat.\n3. **Kiai Senshin** (Fervor Warriors) - Driven by a spirited resolve, these warriors bring fury onto the battlefield.\n\n### Siege Units\n1. **Saku-shi** (Wall Engineers) - Specialists in fortification assault and defense, essential in siege warfare.\n2. **H\u014dshuitei** (Provision Guilds) - Tasked with logistics, maintaining supply lines and ensuring the support of field operations.\n\nThese names aim to capture the essence and historical authenticity of the Sengoku period, fostering an immersive roleplay environment.","behavior":"degenerate_repetition","conversation_hash":"f9f7fcb12848ff62819f097b7e70bd16","conversation_redacted":true,"conversation_toxic":false,"country":"South Korea","empty_output":false,"evidence_codes":[],"label":"absent","label_present":false,"label_qualified":false,"label_source":"Final dense release","language":"English","model":"gpt-4o-2024-08-06","n_chars":70236,"n_turns_in_conversation":1,"n_words":11746,"source_row_offset":3657,"source_shard":"turns-00039.parquet","timestamp":"Fri, 25 Oct 2024 02:25:59 GMT","turn_id":"67e38000e1b8f4e7979ef5f5","turn_index":0,"user_text":"User: sengoku era samurai troop unit ideas list for my discord for honor roleplay mass combat server (no guns to stay realistic for for honor):\n\nnotes: \n\n\nThe Miniatures Page logo\n\"Are there any rulesets that work at \"contingent\" level?\" Topic\n22 Posts\nAll members in good standing are free to post here. Opinions expressed here are solely those of the posters, and have not been cleared with nor are they endorsed by The Miniatures Page.\n\nPlease do not post offers to buy and sell on the main forum.\n\nFor more information, see the TMP FAQ.\n\nBack to the Classical Asian Warfare Message Board\n\nAreas of Interest\nAncients\nMedieval\nRenaissance\nFeatured Hobby News Article\nLancashire Games: Pre-Release Offer Ending in Days\nWellington in India\n\nFeatured Link\nDark & Feudal Ages at Alicante 2022\n\n\nFeatured Ruleset\nAthena Wargames Rules: The English Civil Wars, The Thirty Years War\nAthena Wargames Rules: The English Civil Wars, The Thirty Years War\nRating: gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star \n\nFeatured Showcase Article\nSumerian Chariots in 6mm\nSumerian regular chariot stand\nRemember back in 2005, when I promised pictures of those Sumerian chariot stands in 6mm?\n\nFeatured Profile Article\nRubbery Dinos at the Dollar Store\nDinosaur\nGet these inexpensive dinos while you can.\n\nFeatured Book Review\nThe Savage Garden\nThe Savage Garden\n\n2,277 hits since 7 Feb 2016\n\u00a91994-2024 Bill Armintrout\nComments or corrections?\n\ndddd99\t07 Feb 2016 8:02 p.m. PST\nHi All,\n\nThe more I read about Sengoku Jidai warfare the more I see it is a mixed unit affair with the lower level troops attached to their feudal master. So a Hojo retainer in the 1570s, for example, might command something like 500-800 troops. These troops fought for him, in close proximity to him.\n\nIt was not until later that infantry organization changed in Japan and teppo ashigaru were \"pooled\" with other teppo ashigaru from other lords to fight in an organized teppo \"unit\", for example.\n\nSo what I am interested in is ANY rules that reflect this; it does not necessarily need to be Sengoku rules that you recommend. I have heard people on this forum describe Feudal Japanese warfare as similar to War of the Roses style warfare, but I also wonder are there more examples of this \"mixed\" style of warfare?\n\nBasically, I am interested in any rule treatment that somehow incorporates this information instead of just turning all \"ancient\" / \"feudal\" warfare into pristine roman unit warfare. Hopefully that last statement won't be misinterpreted; I am at a loss of words to describe this \"mixed\" unit syle of warfare.\n\nI realize that Killer Katanas 2 could cover this period, but to do some of these larger battles you would require a large table. Are there any rulesets that work for people interested in basing mixed units: foot samurai, mounted samurai, and ashigaru with all their different weapons on one base (think of diorama style bases)?\n\nadvocate Supporting Member of TMP\t08 Feb 2016 12:17 a.m. PST\nA diorama style base woulds suit games like Sword & Spear or Impetus. I don't know if either currently have lists. However, they also have standard-sized units, and I wonder if that is what you need, or whether you want different sizes to reflect different contingents.\n\nsetsuko\t08 Feb 2016 12:43 a.m. PST\nI agree that it sounds like you're looking for something like Impetus. If you go for a smaller scale, like 6mm or 10mm, it's easy to mix and match different types on the same base.\n\nI based my troops for DBA and FoG, on just 40mm wide bases, but I could still cram in a few infantrymen on my cavalry bases:\n\n\nThat way, even though you count the base as \"cavalry\" or \"archers\", you can represent them as more mixed, historical units.\n\nIf you go with a ruleset with even larger bases, you can do more impressive stuff, like these:\n\n\nJim Louttit based these on 3 inch square bases, and you can find more examples here:\n\nlink\n\nMike O\t08 Feb 2016 4:19 a.m. PST\nThe free set \"A Coat of Steel\" from Perfect Captain are mixed contingent rules for the Wars of the Roses which I always thought would be very appropriate for adaption to samurai warfare (including pre Sengoku periods). It uses some novel mechanics to prevent it becoming a boring scrum.\n\nlink\n\nRabelais\t08 Feb 2016 6:08 a.m. PST\nI was thinking of converting ACOS myself for Sengoku samurai, but I was put off by the amount of work involved with changing the cards and other playing aids. But it's the best existing template that I'm aware of.\n\nAt the moment we're trying out a conversion of the Great Battles in History board game 'Ran,' using squares instead of hexes. Alternatively, you could use tape measurements, I guess. In Ran, the 'counters' are still single troop types, but a contingent can be made up of 8-10 bases, so there's more of a feel of a contingent being made up of small units of samurai, ashigaru, guns and cavalry. The problem with Ran is that it's a bit costly and hard to get hold of.\n\nRabelais\t08 Feb 2016 7:16 a.m. PST\nI also thought it may be possible to modify Peter Pig's 'Battles in the Age of War' rules. They already allow you to mix ashigaru spears, bows and guns in the same unit, but all samurai are grouped separately, and have their own morale class.\n\nI think it would be possible to mix samurai and ashigaru together and use the appropriate morale class depending on the percentage of samurai remaining in the unit. AFAIK mixing samurai and ashigaru like this wouldn't impact the melee rules.\n\nPersonal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP\t08 Feb 2016 8:08 a.m. PST\nTaiko! will do what you want. Figures are nominally based individually, and the armies are built around sub-commanders. You'd just need to tweak the lists where you want.\n\nlink\n\nmad monkey 1\t08 Feb 2016 9:04 a.m. PST\nTry these if you can get a hold of them:\nlink\n\ngamedad25\t08 Feb 2016 10:00 a.m. PST\nContact <PRESIDIO_ANONYMIZED_EMAIL_ADDRESS> for Chrysanthemum Throne pdf.\n\nI believe they are sold in a bundle with Age of Gunpowder and Le Petit Empereur for $15.00 USD usd.\n\nBelgianRay\t08 Feb 2016 1:55 p.m. PST\nI agree totally with Extra Crispy : go for Taiko. No way around it.\n\ndddd99\t08 Feb 2016 6:49 p.m. PST\nHi All,\n\nThanks for all the responses. I already own Taiko!, Killer Katanas, Impetus, and Sword and Spear. I have 6mm figures: Irregular as well as Baccus (I do not usually mix them). I once attempted to buy Chrysanthemum Throne, but that company closed their internet presence a week before I went to buy them ahah. I think I may email Chipco, based on gamedad25's post above; thanks. I would love to buy BAW, but I would really enjoy a cheaper price or a pdf version since I am not sure it is what I am looking for.\n\nAll of the rules mentioned above I am not sure will suffice for me. I have researched so much Japanese feudal warfare over the past year or so that I have decided to write my own. That was why I was looking for other examples of \"contingent\" warfare.\n\nHere are some responses to the above posts:\n\nadvocate \u2013 I have already played some samurai battles using lists I created for Sword and Spear. What can I say I love Sword and Spear, but it does segregate figures into \"units\". By the way I highly respect Impetus as well but I find S&S more enjoyable; but they are both top notch.\n\nsetsuko \u2013 your work on yr 6mm Baccus is amazing. I have always admired them and have seen them before in prior posts. = ) in fact your images are why I decided to buy Baccus. and I have seen Jim L's work before too. Simply amazing. In fact, his diorama bases are what led me to developing my own \"contingent\" based approach; that and playing my new Nobunaga's Ambition game I got off Steam. I found out that Japanese game/sim creators routinely represent these battles using this \"contingent\" based approach.\n\nMikeO & Rabelais \u2013 thanks so much for the idea to recommend ACOS. I am reading thru it now. = ) Very good stuff so far. Lots of ideas.\n\nExtra Crispy \u2013 I do enjoy Taiko! rules and am very happy to have them in my collection. Ihave said before and will say it again they are definitely worth the purchase. Not too expensive, pdf download and instant gratification.\n\nLike I said, thanks for all the informative and interesting responses, all. Now I am off to read some ACOS and maybe to work on my rules. Best wishes.\n\nLion in the Stars\t09 Feb 2016 11:49 a.m. PST\nI was under the impression that even a low-ranking commander would divide his troops into single-weapon squads of Spearmen, Archers, and Teppo.\n\nThe Ashigaru teppo squads appear to be mixed with ~3-5 teppo and 2-4 bows, with the archers shooting to protect the gunners while they reloaded.\n\nEValerio has some great illustrations that he based on the Takeda Screens, thread is here on TMP: TMP link\n\nI guess the real question is, what figure compression are you running? If you're modeling at something like 1:30, then I'd use a squad stand to represent a company. But if you're using 6mm figures, you could go nuts and model things 1:1 for a not-unreasonable cost.\n\ndddd99\t09 Feb 2016 9:26 p.m. PST\nLion,\n\nI am familiar with EValerio's work. It is top notch.\n\nI believe he has stated before that the Kawanakajima Kassen Byobu screens were influential in his illustrations:\n\n\nI believe these types of formations are referred to as sonae. They are usually 300-800 men. As you can see there are mounted troops and foot troops as well as archers and gunners.\n\nThe issue in my opinion is when you play a game, take impetus for example, its bases represent 300-1200 men depending on the circumstances/troop type. So this seems incompatible with Evalerio's illustrations. If I were to wish to represent his illustration, which I actually do, then one of his illustrations is say 500 men +/-. If 50% of those are ashigaru wielding infantry weapons like nagae yari or whatever, and 20% are an ahshigaru mixture of missile troops (teppo/yumi \u2013 these ratios evolved throughout the sengoku toward more heavy on the gunners). That's about 70% ashigaru. That leaves about 30% of what people refer to as the samurai (I realize this line between samurai/ashigaru definitely became increasingly blurred as the sengoku went on) \u2013 some are mounted some on foot.\n\nTo give a real world example I bought some 6mm Irregular samurai range (I have lots of Baccus as well =-) ). I played it with Sword and Spear rules (which I have high respect for). As some of you may know the figures came in strips and therefore I could not cut apart as you can with Baccus. So I ended up with a base of samurai on foot charging a base of yumi ashigaru for example. If each base were like 300 men it makes this seem odd and not how I now picture samurai warfare.\n\nSo I am saying maybe make a game where we use EValerio's nice illustrations as a template and maybe represent them on the tabletop as Jim Louttit's bases that setsuko has shown above. I dunno to me that'd seem like a sweet game. Maybe I am wrong.\n\nSo thanks for the reply, Lion. To answer your question about figure compression\u2026. I dunno my thoughts above maybe give a rough draft of that\u2026 hopefully. To be honest I have not based my Baccus 6mm yet and I want to make sure I do it right so I am leaning toward Jim Louttit style basing and I need rules to accommodate that. Tall order I know. hahah. take care.\n\nsetsuko\t10 Feb 2016 2:42 a.m. PST\nThinking of it, you could look at games that are even more \"zoomed out\", like Bl\u00fccher. A lot of the time when I read about campaigns in the period, the commanders focus much more on the issues that Bl\u00fccher deals with (getting your divisions to the right place, marching orders, scouting, surprise attacks, choosing a favourable battlefield) than \"this unit of spearmen charges into this unit of spearmen\".\n\nWe're planning to try out Bl\u00fccher at the club once we've painted up enough 6mm napoleonics, and maybe after that I know more about how easy it would be to convert to 16th century Japan. And basing and unit composition would be far less important when you're \"units\" represents a corps.\n\nBut I agree, it's very hard not to feel like you're constantly trying to fit a square peg through a round hole when looking at army sized tabletop games in this period.\n\nRabelais\t10 Feb 2016 3:50 a.m. PST\nThe precursor to the GBOH board game 'Ran,' called 'Samurai,' had 4 troop types: cavalry, infantry, bows and teppo. The latter two were treated as lighter units. For the later Sengoku period, a mechanism was introduced whereby all infantry could fire as teppo to represent the greater proportion of guns being used. There was no distinction between 'ashigaru' and 'samurai' infantry. I'm led to believe that such a distinction is rarely made in Japanese boardgames of the period either.\n\nThe rules are a free download here:\n\ngmtgames.com/p-169-samurai.aspx\n\nNow, I'm not sure whether it's infringing copyright, but there are scans of the playsheets on the Board Game Geek page for the game, too.\n\n\nAnyway, the rules are maybe worth looking at. I still feel a conversion of ACOS would work well, particularly if you use the system of counters from the ACOP campaign game to build your contingents. But it's too much work for me at the moment. I'd love to see any progress you make with it, however.\n\nLion in the Stars\t10 Feb 2016 8:06 p.m. PST\nI think I'd have to give every unit a shooting attack of some level at the stand=500men level of representation.\n\nJust lump it all together, and assume that the clan commander will make whatever formation changes are necessary.\n\nThen again, I'm pretty much a pure 1:1 gamer, so army level battles aren't something I do very often.\n\ndddd99\t11 Feb 2016 8:36 p.m. PST\nSetsuko & Rabelais thanks so much for the replies. I have been reading about Bl\u00fccher lately. Yes I think the \"zoomed out\" approach is more what I am going for. Not that I have anything against a smaller approach; I just do not think that many rules and basing systems achieve a historically accurate experience. In other words, if you look at the Kawanakajima Kassen Byobu screens or an EValerio illustration -- I have never seen that represented on the tabletop satisfactorily. It would require quite a large tabletop to achieve that with the individual unit approach.\n\nSo Lion, a 1:1 representation would prohibit you from simulating some of the medium and larger sengoku battles. I think you're all right with that though; It is just what you prefer. But if you invited me to a game of 1:1 and it involved samurai I would definitely accept and be happy for the game =-) . And your comment about giving each unit at the stand=500men level of representation a shooting attack is something I have already done in my humble homebrew rules. I think it is a must in that case.\n\nRabelais, I am definitely paging thru ACOS. And if I do make any progress I will try to update. And also thanks for the samurai rules link. I downloaded them and read thru them briefly at quiet points in my day.\n\nSo again, thanks for the comments. It has been enlightening for me to get so many good recommendations and exposure to other good rulesets. Take care and best wishes.\n\nRabelais\t17 Apr 2016 4:50 a.m. PST\nWe finally got round to trying 'Ran' on the tabletop. It worked well, all thing considered. Each 'clan' can have around 10-20 'units' so there is more of a feel of a clan being composed of small contingents than other sets.\n\nAnyway, thoughts and report are here:\nwargamesasp.wordpress.com/2016/04/17/ran\n\nMike O\t18 Apr 2016 2:07 p.m. PST\nGreat report there, Rabelais, lots of food for thought. I own the original \"Samurai\" boardgame but not \"Ran\" \u2013 just curious, in general terms, if there were many changes in the CRT and other charts between the two?\n\nWulfgar\t18 Apr 2016 8:56 p.m. PST\nWell done, Rabelais. Using the rules from the \"Ran\" boardgame is inspired.\n\nHopefully there are more copies out there. I just bought the last copy of GMT's \"Samurai\" from Fine Games through Amazon. I think that Noble Knight Games still has a copy or two of \"Ran,\" but its getting into collector's item prices. About $119 USD or so, I think.\n\nHowever, The rules can still be downloaded for free through the GMT website, so actually purchasing the actual games might not be necessary.\n\nFor myself, I stumbled across \"Irregular Wars,\" which provides a similar game, but without all of the markers cluttering things up. I've been very happy with being able to play battles between small clans, and the table top looks much like the one in your photos.\n\nIrregular Wars can be perused at this link from the author, Nicholas Wright:\n\nirregularwars.blogspot.com\n\nIrregular Wars provide lists for the earlier Muromachi period, the Sengoku Jidai, the Ikko Ikki and Sohei, the Ming, the Manchurians, and the Joseon Koreans.\n\nRabelais\t19 Apr 2016 2:10 a.m. PST\n@MikeO\n\nAs far as I can tell the CRT and other tables are exactly the same. However, the combat numbers are different due to the extra number of troop types. 'Ran' is a more streamlined set of rules than 'Samurai' IMO, but you should be able to continue to play 'Samurai' and use whichever changes you like from the 'Ran' rules without too much trouble.\n\nWe played 'Samurai' first and I liked that they had one infantry class rather than splitting samurai and ashigaru (which is apparently the norm among Japanese board games). Overall I think 'Ran' is an improvement but 'Samurai' works fine too.\n\nRabelais\t19 Apr 2016 2:17 a.m. PST\n@Wulfgar\n\nThanks for that, another set to check out!\n\nSorry - only verified members can post on the forums.\n\nRadious Mods Wiki\nExplore\nWiki Content\nCommunity\n FANDOM\nFan Central\nBETA\nGames\nAnime\nMovies\nTV\nVideo\nWikis\nStart a Wiki\nSign In\nRegister\nRadious Mods Wiki\n50\npages\nExplore\nWiki Content\nCommunity\n\n\nUnit Pack 2 -- Sengoku Jidai Campaign\nView source\nS2 unit pack 2\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nLink to the original thread posted on Total War Center forums (This is where you can find download links)\n\nThe second unit pack released by Radious adds 38 brand new units to the original Shogun 2 campaign making it one of the largest mods of its kind. This mod is fully compatible with all of Shogun 2's dlc's and *should* work alongside any other mods that add custom units to the game. Note: This only adds units to the default campaign and custom battles. It will not work on MP unless both parties have the mod installed.\n\nRadious published two other unit packs that correspond with the other two dlc campaigns (click to navigate to their respective pages):\n\nUnit Pack 1 -- Rise of the Samurai Campaign\nUnit Pack 3 -- Fall of the Samurai Campaign\n\nTo see specific stats and pictures of units added by this pack simply click the name of the unit you wish to view:\n\n\nContents\n1\tBow/Matchlock Units (Misc.)                                                           \n2\tCavalry\n3\tNinjas\n4\tOnna Bushi (Female Warriors)\n5\tPirates\n6\tPortuguese Tercos\n7\tSamurai\n8\tWarrior Monks\nBow/Matchlock Units (Misc.)                                                           \nBow Warrior Nuns\nMatchlock Ronin\nCavalry\nMounted Katana Ashigaru\nMounted Yari Ashigaru\nNaginata Cavalry\nYari Ronin Cavalry\nNinjas\nBow Ninjas\nKatana Ninjas\nMounted Katana Ninjas\nMounted Naginata Ninjas\nNaginata Ninjas\nNinja Hero\nTetsubo Ninjas\nYari Ninjas\nOnna Bushi (Female Warriors)\nElite Onna Bushi\nMounted Onna Bushi\nYari Onna Bushi\nPirates\nBow Pirates\nHeavy Sword Pirates\nKatana Pirates\nMounted Yari Pirates\nNaginata Pirates\nPirate Captain\nTetsubo Pirates\nYari Pirates\nPortuguese Tercos\nMounted Tercos\nPike Tercos\nSabre Tercos\nSamurai\nBow Light Samurai\nHeavy Armored Samurai\nKatana Light Samurai\nMounted Naginata Light SamuraiMounted Naginata Light SamuraiNaginiata Light Samurai\nNaginata Light Samurai\nNodachi Ronin\n<PRESIDIO_ANONYMIZED_PERSON>\nWarrior Monks\nKatana Warrior Monks\nMounted Katana Warrior Monks\nTetsubo Warrior Monks\nCommunity content is available under CC-BY-SA unless otherwise noted.\nPopular Pages\nPike Tercos\nPike Tercos\nUnit Pack 2 -- Sengoku Jidai Campaign\nUnit Pack 2 -- Sengoku Jidai Campaign\nMounted Tercos\nMounted Tercos\nSabre Tercos\nSabre Tercos\nFandom logo\nExplore properties\nFandom\nMuthead\nFanatical\nFollow Us\nOverview\nWhat is Fandom?\nAbout\nCareers\nPress\nContact\nTerms of Use\nPrivacy Policy\nDigital Services Act\nGlobal Sitemap\nLocal Sitemap\nCommunity\nCommunity Central\nSupport\nHelp\nDo Not Sell or Share My Personal Information\nAdvertise\nMedia Kit\nContact\nFandom Apps\nTake your favorite fandoms with you and never miss a beat.\nFandom App logo\nStore icon\nStore icon\nRadious Mods Wiki is a FANDOM Games Community.\nView Mobile Site\nFollow on IG\nTikTok\nJoin Fan Lab\nCheck out Fandom Quizzes and cha\nSearch this wiki\nSearch all wikis\n\nSkip to content\nWisely lead\u2026 without a head!\n\nRules for the Sengoku Jidai: Core Mechanics\nOct 15, 2020 by mmcv, posted in Feudal Japan, Rulesets\nIn my last post I gave a bit of background for my thinking on how a Sonae based Sengoku Jidai ruleset might work and some of my early experiments with it. To recap, the Sengoku Jidai refers to the period of civil war that devastated Japan in and around the 16th century. Armies were generally organised into sub units of mixed arms clans known as Sonae. The terrain of Japan meant warfare tended to favour looser formations and manoeuvre than would typically be seen elsewhere in the world at the time.\n\nFor the moment I\u2019ve settled on \u201chit dice\u201d as my randomisation method, namely rolling 4 dice, adding or removing dice based on situational modifiers, then counting any 6\u2019s as a success. In this post I hope to explore some of the core mechanics I\u2019ve been trying out; command and control, movement, combat and morale.\n\nI am writing these into a more \u201ctechnical\u201d rules document, but wanted to lay out some of the general concepts here. At the end I will have a brief pencil and paper battle report to show how some of the mechanics play out.\n\nCommand and Control\nThis refers to the means in which the players actually command their armies and give orders to commanders and units. There are essentially three levels of command. The first and lowest level is the individual units, typically a mixed arm Sonae, commanded by a Samurai-daisho (military leader) a minor Daimyo (feudal lord). These commanders are abstracted into the units themselves and assumed to be dealing with the individual allocation of troops within the Sonae.\n\nMultiple Sonae will generally be grouped together into a Te, or division. The most senior, and usually most powerful, Sonae within this division, is known as the Honjin (or headquarters Sonae), usually commanded by a senior Daimyo. This Honjin Sonae is the Commander for the entire Te, and is the one from which actions to the individual units will flow.\n\nAn army will generally consist of several of these Te with the leader of the most senior Daimyo\u2019s Te being designated the overall Army General. Unlike the Commanders who are embedded into their Honjin Sonae, the Army General is treated as a stand alone entity based separately to a Sonae, though they will usually have one or more powerful Sonae in their own Te commanded by trusted retainers, usually including a Honjin Sonae with it\u2019s own Commander. Typically there will be one Army General per side, but in large, multiplayer battles, there could potentially be multiple Army Generals, each leading their own set of divisions in coordination with their ally. This can lead to some fun possibilities for betrayal and treachery, as was common in the period.\n\nThese Army Generals may be in one of two states. The first is \u201cEncamped\u201d whereby they are based with their Maku screen and retainers, usually in a prominent but well defended position in the battle field. In this state they have powerful defensive modifiers, can send out messengers to their commanders, but cannot move themselves.\n\nThe second is \u201cMobile\u201d whereby they mount up with their personal unit of bodyguard troops, known as the Hatamoto, and become a powerful unit in their own right with rapid movement but no ability to send out messengers to commanders and a greater chance of personal injury.\n\nThe fourth Battle of Kawanakajima: Takeda Shingen Vs Uesugi Kenshin - by  Dmitry Filatov. | Takeda shingen, Samurai art, Japanese history\nThere is a somewhat fanciful story of the great rivals Uesugi Kenshin and Takeda Shingen engaging in a brief duel when Kenshin, mounted with his Hatamoto personal guard burst into the Takeda camp and engaged an unprepared Shingen, who was forced to defend with his steel war fan until his own Hatamo could drive Kenshin off. While it likely never happened, it does provide a good example of the two different ways Generals can operate.\nGiven the hierarchical clan status of the armies, the loss of a Commander will generally mean the loss of an entire division, and the loss of the Army General will usually spell the loss of the entire battle. So there is a fine balance between using these as powerful offensive units, while keeping them safe from harm at risk of collapsing the army. There is some potential around loyalty and successor mechanics that may mitigate this collapse somewhat, likely a series of Morale tests for the units and a test or special trait that allows a Commander or General to have a worthy successor to take the reigns of battle, but I\u2019ve still to shake out the details on them.\n\nEach commander (including the general) will have an Authority value representing their right to rule and the respect they hold from their retainers. This can be a positive or negative value, depending how powerful or weak they are. This value will be used to modify the number of orders that they can give. The commanders will also have a Command Radius that extends out from their unit, with Authority increasing or decreasing the range. Any units outside this Command Radius may only be given one order per activation. Any units within the General\u2019s Command Radius will gain a bonus to their Morale tests.\n\nAt the beginning of each turn the player will decide if their Army General is Encamped or Mobile. If Encamped then they may designate a Commander to send a messenger to. If both the General and Commander are out of range of any enemy units then this is decided with a simple 4 + Authority d6 check (success on at least one 6). If either is within range of the enemy, the check is opposed and must score more successes than the enemy to succeed. If successful, then that commander can add the general\u2019s Authority along with their own to their next activation. I did briefly toy with having messengers as their own units that travelled across the battlefield, but it became somewhat messy and required remembering which messenger had been directed at which commander. I suspect the messenger rules will undergo further modifications in time, for instance reducing the available dice over longer distances.\n\nActivations are dynamic. For each command a token should be placed in a bag or stack to allow for random activations. Ideally this would be a token with the clans Mon (or symbol) on it, but could equally be coloured dice or chits, a stack of cards, etc. Anything that lets the players randomly allocate command activation. Players will draw a token and whichever general that token belongs to can allocate it to a command within the army. That command then activates and performs its actions, then the next token is drawn and the process repeats. This means play can alternate back and forth between the players, or may result in one player having a run of a few activations then the other player having the same. Each command can only activate once per turn.\n\nKamon Symbols of Japan \u2014 Encyclopedia of Japan\nThe Mon of some of the better known clans in the period, this would appear prominently on banners and screens for the clan\u2019s troops. Some of the clan names in this graphic are non-standard renditions, such as Mouri (Mori) and Houjou (Hojo).\nOnce activated the command rolls a single d6, adding the appropriate Authority modifiers, and that will give the number of orders that can be given that activation. Orders can then be allocated out amongst the units under command to move, engage in combat or rally. There is no limit to the number of orders that each unit can have assigned, up to the total allocated, but those units receiving a large number of orders will have to take a morale test and on failure become fatigued and unable to take any actions the following activation.\n\nOnce all the orders have been allocated, or the player doesn\u2019t wish to allocate any more, the activation ends and the next one is drawn. Once all commands have been activated, the turn ends and the cycle begins again.\n\nMovement\nThis relates to how the units actually manoeuvre around the battlefield. My plan is to keep movement fairly simple. The distance of movement is the same for all units, though certain units will be allowed an extra move such as mounted generals. I\u2019m generally assuming the unit of movement will be around a base width, as that\u2019s usually a decent indicator of unit and table size. Each unit will have a front quarter, a rear quarter and two flank quarters, with the boundaries extending in diagonals from the unit\u2019s corners. When I say something is n Movements, it means n units of whatever the movement distance is. To make a movement a unit will be issued with a Move Order. This will allow them to do one of three things:\n\nMove directly into their forward quarter by up to 2 Movements maintaining facing. This may include charging into contact with an enemy unit.\nFall back into their rear quarter by 1 Movement maintaining facing. If this is given to a unit in combat they must take a Morale check after doing so.\nChange facing to a different quarter and make up to 1 Movement in the new direction of facing. This covers all manoeuvring, whether it be changing facing and remaining in place, or moving in a new direction.\nUnits may be issued any number of Move Orders so long as the commander has Orders to allocate and they begin the orders within the Command Radius of the commander.\n\nTerrain will have some impact on movement, essentially difficult terrain will only allow one Movement forward rather than two and roads allow an extra Movement when going forward or back along it. These rules still need a bit more experimentation. It may be that difficult terrain ends all movement for that unit for that activation and they cannot be given any more Move Orders.\n\nCharging Mounted Samurai\nMassed cavalry charges were rare in Japanese warfare of the period, but small groups of mounted samurai could turn the tide of battle when striking the right place at the right time.\nGiven the fixed distances, the rules as written could be easily translated to a square or hex grid. I\u2019ve been playing out test games on gridded notepaper (mostly because it\u2019s all I have to hand with everything packed away to sell our house) and it\u2019s worked reasonably well, but overall the fluidity of free measurement will provide a much more satisfying range of movement options.\n\nRanged Combat\nThere are two types of combat in the game. The first, and generally less effective, is Ranged Combat. This represents the proportion of bows and guns within a unit. While bows and guns of the period had a theoretical range of 300-500 metres, in reality the effective range against armour was around 50-100 metres. Over time as the proportion of guns increased, firepower became more effective, but was still primarily used as a means of defence, behind screens and fortifications, or for softening up an enemy before the charge into melee for offensive actions.\n\nStandard Ranged Combat will work as an exchange between two units at a range of 2 Movements or less. Most units will have some means of firing, even if its just a few samurai with bows and guns. There will be modifiers available to units, typically ranging from -2 to 2 that can reflect the proportion of guns and firing capacity. In a Ranged Combat exchange, both units will roll their ranged attack dice, hitting on 6s then total up the number of hits inflicted. The default number of attack dice is four, though the modifiers mentioned previously along with a few other special conditions (e.g. firing up a hill would be -1, while firing at close range would be +1) can modify these dice up and down.\n\nAny side that receives at least one hit must make a Morale test, which will be described later but essentially consists of throwing four dice (+/- modifiers) with at least one 6 needed for a pass. For each additional hit past the first one in the Ranged Exchange, a dice is removed from the Morale test. So if a sonae of the Ouchi engages a sonae of the Mori in a ranged attack, both players would roll their attack dice. If the Ouchi rolled three 6s and the Mori rolled one 6, then both sides would be required to take a Morale test, but the Mori would do so with 2 less dice than normal due to the two additional hits.\n\nFailing a Morale test from a ranged attack results in a unit status change. A unit that is fresh and in good spirits will become Wavering, which will somewhat impair their ability to fight in Close Combat. A unit that is already Wavering will become Brittle, which impairs them further still. A unit that is already Brittle will break and be removed from the battle. This means a ranged exchange is unlikely to cause serious damage unless a unit is already in dire straights. There will be a Rally mechanic described later to remove these statuses.\n\nRanged Ashigaru\nMost ranged combat was done by sub units of Ashigaru peasant soldiers armed with matchlock \u201cteppo\u201d guns and light weight long bows known as \u201cyumi\u201d, though samurai would often have guns and bows as their primary weapons well. Indeed the yumi was the traditional primary weapon of samurai in earlier periods before massed peasant infantry and firearms became the norm.\nExceptions to this standard exchange are when engaging from the flank, in which case only half your attack dice can be used, or from the rear, in which case only one attack dice can be used. There is also the possibility of Opportunity Fire, the exact details of which are still under review, but will generally allow a unit to take unopposed pot shots at anyone entering firing range. I\u2019m still not entirely sure on this given the exchange nature of standard firing, it\u2019s mostly a means to prevent units skipping along the front of the enemy without consequence, but I may instead implement some form of Zone of Control on movement that prevents this instead. The other type of firing is Closing Fire, which I\u2019ll cover shortly as part of the Close Combat exchange.\n\nClose Combat\nClose combat consists of up to four phases, Charging, Closing Fire, Melee and Shock. Charging is covered under the movement rules and is a movement that ends in contact with an enemy unit. The unit that initiated the charge will gain an extra dice in the first round of Melee. If a unit is Wavering it must pass a Morale test before charging and a Brittle unit cannot charge at all.\n\nThe defending unit may choose to use Closing Fire, that is an unopposed ranged attack, i.e. only the defender rolls their attack dice. If it is successful in hitting the charger, and the charger fails the Morale test then the new status is applied, the charge will be cancelled and the charger will fall back or pull up 1 Movement short of the enemy unit. However, if the charger is unharmed, the defender will have one less attack dice to use in the following round of Melee combat. This is to simulate the delay in bringing up the melee troops while firing at the charging unit.\n\nThe Charge and Closing Fire occur as part of the normal cycle of Orders, but Melee doesn\u2019t occur until the end of the Activation. This allows all movements and ranged attacks to be carried out first, then all close combat will be resolved.\n\nThe Melee Phase involves both participants rolling their attack dice, modified as needed, with different results depending on the outcome. If both units fail to make any successful hits, then each will fall back 1 Movement to their rear quarter. If this movement is blocked, for instance by another unit or a terrain feature, they must instead take a Morale test and apply the appropriate status if failed. If both units make the same number of hits, they remain locked in combat and nothing else happens for them until the next time one of their commands is activated. If one side manages to make more successful hits than the other, that side is considered the victor and may move onto the Shock Phase.\n\nThe Shock Phase is representative of the elite troops, such as the samurai, exploiting a weakness opened up by the melee and rushing in to try and destroy the enemy command. In the Shock Phase the victor rolls their attack dice modified by any shock modifiers they may have (typically terrain affects the impetus of the shock phase more than the melee) with the outcome depending on how many successes they have.\n\nWith one success the enemy unit is destroyed but the attacker is Fatigued.\n\nWith two successes the enemy unit is destroyed and the attacker is not Fatigued.\n\nWith three or more successes the enemy unit is destroyed, the attacker is not Fatigued and gets a bonus order to use immediately.\n\nThe number of orders may increase with increased success, to be confirmed, and the destruction on one success might be too powerful, so one success may apply a status while two success destroys, etc. These are details to be ironed out in play testing.\n\nArtwork of battle\nCombat in the period often ended in bloody and brutal close combat.\nWhere multiple units are engaged, all dice are rolled together. This is the most \u201cbucket o\u2019 dice\u201d part of the rules, but means large engagements can be dealt with quickly, and makes multi unit melee combats very dangerous, especially if Commanders are involved.\n\nFlank and rear attacks also behave a little differently. There is no Closing Fire when attacking a flank or rear of the unit, and the defending unit cannot use a Shock Phase if it is engaged to the flank or rear, instead if it is victorious in the Melee Phase, the attackers both fall back 1 Movement. This is because an attack at a weak point of the formation would usually be reinforced by the samurai core of the unit, meaning they\u2019ve less momentum to carry out a destructive counter attack immediately and instead just drive the attacker off. Any unit attacking the rear gains an additional attack dice as well as that was usually the weakest point of a formation.\n\nMorale\nAs mentioned in previous sections, each unit will have a certain amount of Morale that it can use to show how resilient it is to breaking. All units have the same potential Morale statuses, Wavering and Brittle, though how those statuses affect different areas of the game will vary. Morale tests are called for in a number of circumstances where the resolve of the unit needs tested. Morale tests behave the same way as other tests in the game, a number of dice, four by standard, are thrown with at least one 6 being required to make it a success. Some units may have Resilience modifiers that can increase or decrease their morale dice, and having the Army General within range can provide an extra morale boost too.\n\nOne of the orders available to a commander is a Rally Order. With this a unit that is not in attack range of an enemy unit (i.e. typically 2 Movements away) and within the Command Radius of it\u2019s Commander, may perform a Morale test and if successful, can reduce their negative statuses. So a Brittle unit that passes it\u2019s Rally Morale test will become Wavering, and a Wavering unit that passes loses the negative status and returns to being fresh and ready for action.\n\n\nFacing this sort of devastation would shake the morale of even the loyalist of samurai, let alone the peasant masses.\nThere are still some balancing tests needed with morale, for instance having the presence and loss of nearby units impacting the roll or requiring additional tests, but for the moment I\u2019m keeping it reasonably simple.\n\nOther Considerations\nThere are a few areas that still need some thought and consideration. I\u2019m still testing out various options for moving through and fighting over different terrain. Given the varied landscapes of Japan I don\u2019t want this to be too much of an imposition, but certainly particularly rugged ground should impose some limitations and fordable rivers appear in a fair few battles of the period so they are important to consider too.\n\nDefensive works is another area that needs some thought. It was quite common for armies in the period to entrench into a defensive position, especially as the ratio of guns increased in armies allowing them increased concentrations of fire. This is definitely something I want to include, either as fixed terrain pieces on the battlefield or as a \u201cdig in\u201d option for a unit. I need to do some more reading on this before deciding how to represent them though.\n\nAssaulting a defensive line\nDefensive works were commonly employed on the battlefields of Japan, often made from bamboo or bundles of reed mats. By the later period, concentrations of firepower would make assaulting such defensive works head-on suicidal.\nBeyond that there are a number of special rules and traits I want to include. I\u2019ve already got an outline of many of these as a means of conferring special abilities on Generals, Commanders and individual Clan units. I want to be reasonably cautious with these to avoid it becoming a bit too video gamey or \u201cHollywood\u201d, but I do wish to include some means to highlight leaders who stood out from their peers through tactical or strategic brilliance, or lack thereof, as well as clans that specialised in particular types of combat or weaponry, or were particularly loyal and devoted. There\u2019s also some consideration to be given to the numerous sects of fanatic warrior monks throughout the period and peasant rebellions. I\u2019m not focusing too much on these until I\u2019m completely happy with the core mechanics, though have plenty of ideas for how they could work.\n\nFormations is another thing that needs more consideration \u2013 both the individual makeup of the sonae and how they organise themselves internally, as well as the larger formation of the entire army. For the sonae themselves, different formations may confer different sets of modifiers, for instance aggressive or defensive formations, or those focusing on concentrating firepower, while for army wide formations, I\u2019d be inclined to leave them up to the whim of the players as if I get things right they should \u201cjust work\u201d as they were intended given the way the battles play out. We shall see!\n\nBeyond that I\u2019ll want to consider some \u201cmeta\u201d play around a campaign system, or some means of playing linked battles, as well as some strategic considerations around scouting and espionage that may aid with deployment and game set up. The idea is allow for both historical battles and ones of the players own devising covering various possible scenarios from a straight up fight, through defensive actions or taking of key objectives. I\u2019ve not decided if I\u2019ll look at sieges or not yet, though castle assaults were a common feature of the warfare.\n\nBattle Report\nThis is one of my pencil and paper test games played out on gridded paper to try out some of these core mechanics. In it, the fictional Maru (circle) and Shikaku (square) clans engage in a clash for control of a key river crossing. I rolled for random entry points across the game area rather than having everyone come in from opposite sides, this felt natural given the mustering of troops tended to involve calling in subject clans. Each army consists of three divisions, marked 1, 2 and 3, so for the purpose of this I will refer to them as the divisions as Maru-ichi (in the south centre), Maru-ni (north centre) and Maru-san (north west), then Shikaku-ichi (west centre), Shikaku-ni (south east) and Shikaku-san (north east). The notations is as follows:\n\nGm = Mobile General (bonus to movement and attack, negative firing)\nGe = Encamped General (bonus to everything, messengers but no movement)\nC = command sonae (bonus to everything)\nX = normal sonae\nF = firing focused sonae (bonus firing, negative melee)\nM = melee focused sonae (bonus melee, negative shock)\nS = shock focused sonae (bonus shock, negative firing)\nf = fatigued\nw = wavering\nb = brittle\n\nHopefully the hills, forest, river, stream, bridge and marsh are self explanatory. The position of the number indicates facing and the negative number on commands indicate lost units.\n\n\nIn the opening turn the Maru-san clan attempts to skirt around the Shikaku-ichi position to link up with their General, however they soon come in range of the enemy gunners stationed on the hill.\n\nIn the south, the Maru-ichi General moves to fortify a hill opposite the Shikaku position. Meanwhile the Shikaku-ni clan rushes towards the bridge to seize the objective and support their allies. In the north the outnumbered Shikaku-san clan attempt to secure their flank on the forest and present a line of attack to funnel the Maru-ni enemy into.\n\nThe Maru-san find themselves pinned down by enemy fire as the Shikaku General brings his troops to bear on their slow advance. Feeling the pinch on their flanks the Maru-san turn to engage. In the north east, after several exchanges of fire, an impetuous rush by a Maru-ni daisho drives some of the Shikaku-san from the field, and feeling the potential for encirclement growing, the Shikaku-san pull back into a better defensive position.\n\nNot wishing to relent on the pressure, the Maru-ni keep pressing the beleaguered Shikaku-san, while the unopposed Shikaku-ni set up a solid defence between the stream and river. Frustrated by the fire from the hill, the Maru-san charge the Shikaku General\u2019s position. The Shikaku-ichi manage to stall them at the foot of the hill, but the Maru-ichi take advantage of the exposed southern flank of the Shikaku position and storm the hill from there.\n\nAttacked from multiple sides the Shikaku-ichi begin to collapse and the General abandons the camp and flees for the defensive lines of the Shikaku-ni. However, the Maru-ni advance crushes the Shikaku-san in the north and begins to sweep down towards the open end of the Shikaku-ni position, while the rest of the Maru forces begin their advance towards the stream.\n\nThe Shikaku fall back over the bridge, hoping the choke point will let them wear down the enemy, but the Maru forces sweep in from all sides.\n\nThe assault on the bridge begins and while the Shikaku forces put up a brave fight, they are now heavily outnumbered by the Maru attack.\n\nIn an epic clash, the elite shock troops of the Maru-ichi break the bridge defence while the constant fire exchange across the river wears down and eventually breaks several of the Shikaku defenders. With his army broken and troops fleeing the field, the Shikaku general signals the retreat and slinks off the field in disgrace. The day has gone to the Maru, and they have secured control of a vital point between the rival lands.\nThis was a lot of fun as a game, the narrative flowed easily from the mechanics and while there were a few points were I had to tweak bits or come up with rules for things on the fly, it really helped me refine down some of the mechanics, and determine what did and didn\u2019t work.\n\nSummary\nTo conclude, in this post we covered:\n\nCommand and Control: the role of commanders and how the dynamic activation and order system works, as well as the role of messengers on the field.\nMovement: how movement is determined and the different types of movements available.\nCombat: both ranged and melee combat and the opposed roll system they use.\nMorale: how units test for morale and rally from their various states of disorder.\nDiscussed other areas for expansion and thought once core mechanics are settled.\nFinally finished with a pencil and paper test game and report on how it went.\nI\u2019m not sure what my next post on this will be, as the next stage is probably play testing and refinement, then looking at some of the special rules. No doubt you\u2019ll see some Feudal Japanese forces creep into my painting queue in the coming year in 3mm, 6mm and/or 10mm, along with some more test game battle reports.\n\nThoughts and suggestions are always welcome, I\u2019ve only been in the hobby a few years and don\u2019t have that many games under my belt, so any pitfalls or glaring omissions I\u2019d be interested in knowing about, so please share!\n\nAs ever, thanks for reading,\n\nMatthew\n\nShare this:\nTwitterFacebook\n\nRelated\nRules for the Sengoku Jidai: Revamped\nJun 8, 2021\nIn \"Battle Report\"\nRules for the Sengoku Jidai\nOct 11, 2020\nIn \"Feudal Japan\"\nProgress Update \u2013 July 2021\nAug 2, 2021\nIn \"Feudal Japan\"\nTagged 2D Gaming, Feudal Japan, Pencil and Paper, Rulesets, Wargaming\nPost navigation\nPrevious Post\nRules for the Sengoku Jidai\nNext Post\nBattle Report \u2013 Oda vs Asai\n4 thoughts on \u201cRules for the Sengoku Jidai: Core Mechanics\u201d\nPingback: Battle Report \u2013 Oda vs Asai \u2013 Wisely lead\u2026 without a head!\nPingback: Progress Update \u2013 March 2021 \u2013 Wisely lead\u2026 without a head!\nMr David Ford\nOct 19, 2021 at 6:07 pm\nGreat Stuff \ud83d\ude42\n\nLike\n\nReply\nmmcv\nOct 20, 2021 at 10:08 am\nThanks David, I have revised some of these since this post, some of which is included in this post: https://mmcvhistory.home.blog/2021/06/08/rules-for-the-sengoku-jidai-revamped/\n\nWhich is why some of the bits here are a little different from what we had been chatting about elsewhere. The primary change is the combination of Morale, Fatigue and Ranged Combat into a single Fatigue/Loyalty mechanic.\n\nLike\n\nReply\nLeave a comment\nTop Posts & Pages\nA Very British Civil War in Ireland\nIs it an eagle? Is it a jaguar? No...\nBattle Report - The Battle of Dorylaeum (1097)\nRules for the Sengoku Jidai: Core Mechanics\nAVNICW Faction: The Loyal Democratic State of Northern Ireland\nCategories\nBattle Report (22)\nGeneral (12)\nHistory (6)\nCrusades (5)\nPeriods & Projects (57)\n2D Armies (3)\nAncient China (8)\nBronze Age (9)\nClassical Period (7)\nColonial (3)\nEarly 20th Century (7)\nFantasy (2)\nFeudal Japan (15)\nLate 19th Century (3)\nMedieval (14)\nPike & Shot (11)\nPre-Columbian America (10)\nTerrain (3)\nProgress update (28)\nRulesets (13)\nTags\n2D Gaming 2mm 10mm Ancient China AVBCW AWI Battle Board Battle Report BBB Bronze Age Celts Chu Classical Period Crusaders Early 20th Century English Civil War Factions Fantasy Feudal Japan Flippant History General Great War Greeks Han History Introduction Irish History Late 19th Century Medieval Miniatures Napoleonics Pencil and Paper Pre-Columbian America Qin Reflections Romans Rulesets Saracens Shadow of the Eagles Sharp Practice Ships Showcase Skirmish Games Soldiers of God Tarascans Terrain TooFatLardies To the Strongest Trojan War Turks Twilight of Divine Right Twilight of the Sun King Wargaming Zombicide\nBlogs I Follow\nwe all have our roles to play\nBogenwald\nCooking Without Limits\nA Sincere Love of Food\nWARdROBE Plays WWII\nMark A. Morin\nSkarloc\u00b4s\nTENKA FUBU\n\nFollow Blog via E-mail\nEnter your e-mail address to follow this blog and receive notifications of new posts by e-mail.\n\nEmail Address:\nEmail Address\n\nFollow\n\nBlog at WordPress.com.Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information\nPrivacy & Cookies: This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this website, you agree to their use.\nTo find out more, including how to control cookies, see here: Cookie Policy\nDesign a site like this with WordPress.com\nGet started\nAssistant: Creating a list of Sengoku Era samurai troop units for your For Honor roleplay Discord server can help enhance the realism and immersion for your mass combat scenarios. Here's a list of potential troop units you can consider, tailored to fit a gun-free setting:\n\n### Infantry Units\n1. **Yari Ashigaru** - Foot soldiers armed with long spears; form the backbone of the army.\n2. **Naginata Ashigaru** - Infantry wielding polearms, versatile in both offense and defense.\n3. **Katana Ashigaru** - Swordsmen serving as support troops, skilled in melee combat.\n\n### Samurai Units\n1. **Yari Samurai** - Elite spear-wielding troops, superior to Ashigaru in skill and armor.\n2. **Katana Samurai** - Highly skilled swordsmen, forming the core of offensive charges.\n3. **Naginata Samurai** - Versatile warriors wielding the naginata, capable against cavalry and infantry alike.\n4. **Ronin** - Masterless samurai, often mercenaries, who can be hired for their unique skills.\n\n### Cavalry Units\n1. **Takeda Cavalry** - Elite horsemen known for their speed and powerful charges with yari.\n2. **Mounted Samurai** - Skilled horseback warriors, even more deadly when charging with katana or naginata.\n3. **Bow Cavalry** - Mounted archers skilled in hit-and-run tactics, using yumi (bows) from horseback.\n\n### Archer Units\n1. **Yumi Ashigaru** - Foot archers forming ranged support, helping soften enemy troops.\n2. **Bow Samurai** - Elite archers with superior skill and equipment compared to Ashigaru.\n3. **Kyudo Masters** - Samurai dedicated to the way of the bow, providing precise and powerful ranged attacks.\n\n### Specialist Units\n1. **Sohei (Warrior Monks)** - Religious warriors skilled in martial arts and naginata.\n2. **Onna-Bugeisha** - Female warriors trained in the use of the naginata and bow.\n3. **Kunoichi (Female Ninjas)** - Specialists in espionage and guerrilla tactics, capable of sabotage.\n\n### Support Units\n1. **Standard Bearers** - Carry the clan's banner, boosting morale and organization.\n2. **Drummers** - Keep rhythm to coordinate troop movements and boost morale.\n3. **Strategists** - Advisors skilled in planning and executing battlefield strategies.\n\n### Unique Units\n1. **Hatamoto** - The personal guard of generals and commanders, elite bodyguards.\n2. **Champion Duelists** - Expert swordsmen available for challenges and duels on the battlefield.\n3. **Berserkers** - Warriors who enter frenzied states, unstoppable in close combat until exhausted.\n\nThese units can be used to create engaging and dynamic mass combat scenarios that reflect the diversity and strategy of Sengoku Era warfare without relying on firearms. Adjust details according to any specific game mechanics or lore within your For Honor roleplay setting.\nUser: Expand the list, and remove any gun units. Make it for honor fitting too (keeping immersive aspect): \n\nTotal War Wiki\nTotal War Wiki\nExplore\nTroy\nThree Kingdoms\nHistorical Games\nSpin-offs\n FANDOM\nFan Central\nBETA\nGames\nAnime\nMovies\nTV\nVideo\nWikis\nStart a Wiki\nSign In\nRegister\nTotal War Wiki\nTotal War Wiki\n5,228\npages\nExplore\nTroy\nThree Kingdoms\nHistorical Games\nSpin-offs\n\nin: Total War: Shogun 2 cavalry\nYari Cavalry (Total War: Shogun 2)\nEdit\nFor the Shogun: Total War unit, see Yari Cavalry (Shogun: Total War).\n\nYari Cavalry S2TW Icon\n\nYari Cavalry\nYari Cavalry S2TW\nAppears in\nTotal War: Shogun 2\nBelongs to\nMost factions\nType\nSpear Cavalry\nSoldiers per unit\n20/40/60/80\nAttack skill\n5\nCharge bonus\n25\nAnti-cavalry skill\n15\nArmour\n4 (Mounted)/4 (Dismounted)\nDefense skill\n1\nMorale\n10\nProduced from\nWarhorse Stables, Yari Drill Yard\nSpecial abilities\nWedge Formation\nCost\n800 SP/850 MP\nUpkeep\n200\nTurns to train\n2\nUnit cap\nNone\nYari Cavalry are a type of yari cavalry in Total War: Shogun 2.\n\nDescription\nEach yari cavalry samurai is armed with a long spear that makes him particularly deadly when swiftly charging into combat.\n\nYari cavalry focus all the power of their fearsome charge into the points of the long spears they carry as they smash into enemy cavalry and infantry alike. Their high morale spurs them into battle and keeps them from routing, even when engaged in melee, where their spears are at a disadvantage. Yari cavalry are best used to attack the rear or flanks of infantry to avoid spear counter-attacks and getting caught in messy, close-quarters fighting. Their amazing speed over the ground makes this entirely possible, as they can rarely be caught even by other cavalry units.\n\nDuring the Sengoku Jidai, the spear and sword superseded the bow as the weapons of choice for samurai cavalry. Despite a long tradition of mounted archery, a bow could not be used in melee, leaving cavalry archers vulnerable to counter-attacks by foot soldiers. Spears, on the other hand, could be used to break enemy defences in a full charge, or used in quick, slashing strokes whilst in close combat. Swords could be used to cut an enemy down, but obviously lacked the range of a bow, or spear. However, if a samurai was wealthy enough, he would have an attendant to carry and hand him his bow, spear or sword, depending on the situation and personal preference.\n\nStrengths & Weaknesses\n\nFast and very good charge.\nGood against other cavalry.\nWeak in prolonged melee.\nVulnerable to yari and naginata units in melee.\nGeneral Information\nYari Cavalry are mid-late game cavalry, boasting a powerful charge bonus but only average melee stats. They replace light cavalry, being superior in nearly every way but at the cost of higher upkeep and recruitment costs. Their anti-cavalry bonus and high speed make them excellent for hunting down enemy cavalry, and their high charge bonus allow them to disrupt enemy formations with ease. However, like all cavalry, they are weak to anti-cavalry infantry, and are also highly susceptible to ranged attacks, particularly Fire Rockets. \n\nTwo units of yari cavalry, along with a unit of Great Guard, are granted to any faction that becomes Shogun. This includes the Ikko Ikki, who normally don't have access to yari cavalry.\n\nWhen trained by the Date Clan, Yari Cavalry have +2 charge bonus.\n\nTakeda Yari Cavalry are cheaper to train and maintain (at 700/175 instead of 800/200), have +2 morale, +3 melee attack, +1 melee defence, and +5 charge bonus. They are slightly worse than Takeda Fire Cavalry in almost every way, but have a better charge bonus.\n\nTotal War: Shogun 2 Cavalry\nSpear Cavalry\tGreat Guard \u2022 Light Cavalry \u2022 Takeda Fire Cavalry \u2022 The Spears of Shizugatake \u2022 Yari Cavalry \u2022 Yari Dojo Cavalry\nPolearm Cavalry\tNaginata Warrior Monk Cavalry\nSword Cavalry\tGeneral \u2022 Katana Cavalry \u2022 Kiyomasa\u2019s Katana Cavalry\nMissile Cavalry\tBow Cavalry \u2022 Donderbuss Cavalry \u2022 Tokugawa Mounted Gunners \u2022 Yoritomo\u2019s Yabusame Cavalry\nCategories\nCategories:Total War: Shogun 2 cavalryAdd category\nCommunity content is available under CC-BY-SA unless otherwise noted.\nCommunity Chat\n9 Users Online\nUsers\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nJoin Now!\nOthers Like You Also Viewed\nLight Cavalry (Total War: Shogun 2)\nLight Cavalry (Total War: Shogun 2)\nTakeda Fire Cavalry\nTakeda Fire Cavalry\nNaginata Warrior Monk Cavalry\nNaginata Warrior Monk Cavalry\nKatana Cavalry\nKatana Cavalry\nNaginata Warrior Monks (Total War: Shogun 2)\nNaginata Warrior Monks (Total War: Shogun 2)\nDonderbuss Cavalry\nDonderbuss Cavalry\nKiyomasa\u2019s Katana Cavalry\nKiyomasa\u2019s Katana Cavalry\nYari Ashigaru (Total War: Shogun 2)\nYari Ashigaru (Total War: Shogun 2)\nBenkei\u2019s Blades\nBenkei\u2019s Blades\n\nPopular Pages\nFactions (Total War: Three Kingdoms)\nFactions (Total War: Three Kingdoms)\nFall of the Samurai\nFall of the Samurai\nTotal War: Three Kingdoms\nTotal War: Three Kingdoms\nTraits (Total War: Three Kingdoms)\nTraits (Total War: Three Kingdoms)\nTotal War: Shogun 2\nTotal War: Shogun 2\nFandom logo\nExplore properties\nFandom\nMuthead\nFanatical\nFollow Us\nOverview\nWhat is Fandom?\nAbout\nCareers\nPress\nContact\nTerms of Use\nPrivacy Policy\nDigital Services Act\nGlobal Sitemap\nLocal Sitemap\nCommunity\nCommunity Central\nSupport\nHelp\nDo Not Sell or Share My Personal Information\nAdvertise\nMedia Kit\nContact\nFandom Apps\nTake your favorite fandoms with you and never miss a beat.\nFandom App logo\nStore icon\nStore icon\nTotal War Wiki is a FANDOM Games Community.\nView Mobile Site\nFollow on IG\nTikTok\nJoin Fan Lab\nCheck out Fandom Quizzes and cha\nSearch this wiki\nSearch all wikis\nAssistant: Here's an expanded and immersive list of Sengoku Era samurai troop units suitable for a For Honor roleplay setting, ensuring no gunpowder weapons are included:\n\n### Infantry Units\n1. **Yari Ashigaru** - Basic spear infantry, well-suited for forming spear walls and ranked formations.\n2. **Naginata Ashigaru** - Versatile polearm infantry capable of defending against both cavalry and infantry.\n3. **Katana Ashigaru** - Skilled in close-quarters combat, offering flexibility on the battlefield.\n\n### Samurai Units\n1. **Yari Samurai** - Elite warriors known for their mastery of the spear, excelling in organized combat.\n2. **Katana Samurai** - Highly skilled with swords, forming the offensive forefront of any army.\n3. **Naginata Samurai** - Balanced fighters capable of both offense and defense, adept against cavalry charges.\n4. **Ronin** - Masterless samurai with unpredictable fighting skills, available for hire or rebellion.\n5. **Dual Wield Samurai** - Samurai proficient in wielding two swords, offering greater attack flexibility.\n\n### Cavalry Units\n1. **Yari Cavalry** - Fast-moving spear cavalry, perfect for flanking maneuvers and pursuing fleeing enemies.\n2. **Katana Cavalry** - Mounted swordsmen skilled in slashing down opponents in fast charges.\n3. **Takeda Cavalry** - Renowned for their speed and discipline, often leading devastating charges.\n4. **Mounted Samurai** - Expert horsemen, combining mobility with the deadly efficiency of a samurai's skill.\n\n### Archer Units\n1. **Yumi Ashigaru** - Infantry archers providing essential ranged support for large formations.\n2. **Bow Samurai** - Elite archers with greater range and accuracy, capable of precision strikes.\n3. **Kyudo Masters** - Expert bow users who are revered for their discipline and shooting accuracy.\n\n### Specialist Units\n1. **Sohei (Warrior Monks)** - Religious warriors with spiritual ferocity, skilled in hand-to-hand combat and naginata use.\n2. **Onna-Bugeisha** - Female samurai trained in martial arts and weaponry, offering unique strategic capabilities.\n3. **Battlefield Tacticians** - Provide strategic maneuvers and battlefield insights, enhancing the effectiveness of allied units.\n\n### Support Units\n1. **Standard Bearers** - Bolster the morale and organization of troops with the clan's emblem.\n2. **Drummers** - Coordinate troop movements and elevate combat spirit through rhythm.\n3. **Strategists** - Masters of battlefield tactics, aiding in the planning and execution of complex maneuvers.\n\n### Unique Units\n1. **Hatamoto** - Elite bodyguards of high-ranking officials, unswervingly loyal and fiercely protective.\n2. **Champion Duelists** - Experts in one-on-one combat, challenging enemy leaders and inspiring allies.\n3. **Berserkers** - Possessed by a fierce fighting spirit, causing chaos in the enemy ranks.\n\n### Siege Units\n1. **Siege Engineers** - Specialists in constructing and dismantling fortifications during castle sieges.\n2. **Logistical Support Teams** - Ensure the supply lines remain intact and the army stays well-fed and ready.\n\nThis list emphasizes the traditional aspects of Sengoku period warfare, focusing on melee and cavalry tactics, as well as the strategic deployment of troops. It aligns well with the immersive, close-combat focus typical of a For Honor-style setting.\nUser: Can you possibly also make better names for some of the units instead of just weapon_type \"samurai/ashigaru,\" for the fhu.\nUser: Not like that, keep it realistic and immersive and japanese sengoku.\nAssistant: Certainly! Here's an enhanced list with more thematic and unique names for the Sengoku Era troops suitable for a \"For Honor\" roleplay server:\n\n### Infantry Units\n1. **Spear Sentinels (Yari Ashigaru)** - Stalwart defenders holding the line with unwavering resolve.\n2. **Blade Reapers (Naginata Ashigaru)** - Swift-footed skirmishers brandishing their polearms with lethal grace.\n3. **Steel Sworn (Katana Ashigaru)** - Sword-bearing infantry with oaths of valor and courage.\n\n### Samurai Units\n1. **Pike Vanguard (Yari Samurai)** - Elite guardians whose spears are the harbinger of order on the battlefield.\n2. **Crimson Edge (Katana Samurai)** - Noble warriors whose blades sing songs of honor and bloodshed.\n3. **Halberd Harbingers (Naginata Samurai)** - Ensuring no foe's charge goes unanswered with their daunting reach.\n4. **Wayward Blades (Ronin)** - Masterless samurai whose unpredictable allegiance is matched only by their skill.\n5. **Twin Fury (Dual Wield Samurai)** - Samurai who bring a dance of death to the fray with a sword in each hand.\n\n### Cavalry Units\n1. **Swift Lancers (Yari Cavalry)** - Mounted spear wielders who strike with the speed and force of the gale.\n2. **Dawn Riders (Katana Cavalry)** - Charging into battle at first light, their katanas gleam with the sun's promise.\n3. **Thunder Hooves (Takeda Cavalry)** - Known for their thunderous charges that echo the might of their clan.\n4. **Steedbound Samurai (Mounted Samurai)** - A union of beast and blade, they are the epitome of mounted warfare.\n\n### Archer Units\n1. **Arrow Storm (Yumi Ashigaru)** - Their volleys darken the skies, a harbinger of the rain of arrows to come.\n2. **Eagle Eye (Bow Samurai)** - With a gaze as sharp as their aim, no target is beyond their bow's reach.\n3. **Silent Whisper (Kyudo Masters)** - The bowstring's hush is the last sound heard by those who meet their mark.\n\n### Specialist Units\n1. **Temple Guardians (Sohei)** - Warrior Monks protecting sacred lands with fervent might and spiritual fire.\n2. **Maidens of War (Onna-Bugeisha)** - Female samurai whose presence on the field rewrites the tales of war.\n3. **Enigma Strategists (Battlefield Tacticians)** - Masters of warcraft whose calculated decisions turn the tides of conflict.\n\n### Support Units\n1. **Banner Bearers (Standard Bearers)** - Carrying the soul of the army, they bolster hearts and steel resolve.\n2. **Heartbeat Drummers (Drummers)** - Their rhythm syncs with the pulse of the battlefield, orchestrating the chaos of war.\n3. **War Sages (Strategists)** - Veterans of countless battles whose knowledge shapes empires and fates.\n\n### Unique Units\n1. **Shadow Shields (Hatamoto)** - Elite protectors whose loyalty is as unbreakable as their defense.\n2. **Duelist's Echo (Champion Duelists)** - The challenge of their blade echoes across fields, beckoning honorable combat.\n3. **Ragekindled (Berserkers)** - Fury-fueled titans for whom battle is a trance of destruction.\n\n### Siege Units\n1. **Castlebreakers (Siege Engineers)** - The architects of victory, skilled in breaching the walls that dare stand against them.\n2. **Provision Wardens (Logistical Support Teams)** - The unseen backbone, ensuring the army\u2019s might never wanes from hunger or need.\n\nThese thematic names not only enhance the immersive aspect of your server but also lend a sense of individuality and lore to each unit, enriching the roleplay experience for your participants.\nUser: Not like that, keep it realistic and immersive and japanese sengoku.\nUser: Not like that, keep it realistic and immersive and japanese sengoku.\nAssistant:"},{"assistant_initiates":false,"asst_text":"```json\n[\n    {\n        \"###C\u00e2u h\u1ecfi\": \"T\u00e2n D\u00e2n thu\u1ed9c t\u1ec9nh n\u00e0o c\u1ee7a Trung Qu\u1ed1c?\",\n        \"###Suy lu\u1eadn\": \"T\u00e2n D\u00e2n l\u00e0 m\u1ed9t th\u00e0nh ph\u1ed1 c\u1ea5p huy\u1ec7n tr\u1ef1c thu\u1ed9c Th\u1ea9m D\u01b0\u01a1ng, m\u00e0 Th\u1ea9m D\u01b0\u01a1ng n\u1eb1m trong t\u1ec9nh Li\u00eau Ninh.\",\n        \"###C\u00e2u tr\u1ea3 l\u1eddi\": \"T\u00e2n D\u00e2n thu\u1ed9c t\u1ec9nh Li\u00eau Ninh, Trung Qu\u1ed1c.\"\n    },\n    {\n        \"###C\u00e2u h\u1ecfi\": \"T\u00e2n D\u00e2n l\u00e0 th\u00e0nh ph\u1ed1 c\u1ea5p g\u00ec?\",\n        \"###Suy lu\u1eadn\": \"Ng\u1eef c\u1ea3nh ghi r\u00f5 r\u1eb1ng T\u00e2n D\u00e2n l\u00e0 m\u1ed9t th\u00e0nh ph\u1ed1 c\u1ea5p huy\u1ec7n.\",\n        \"###C\u00e2u tr\u1ea3 l\u1eddi\": \"T\u00e2n D\u00e2n l\u00e0 th\u00e0nh ph\u1ed1 c\u1ea5p huy\u1ec7n.\"\n    },\n    {\n        \"###C\u00e2u h\u1ecfi\": \"Th\u00e0nh ph\u1ed1 T\u00e2n D\u00e2n c\u00f3 bao nhi\u00eau \u0111\u01a1n v\u1ecb h\u00e0nh ch\u00ednh c\u1ea5p nhai \u0111\u1ea1o?\",\n        \"###Suy lu\u1eadn\": \"Th\u00e0nh ph\u1ed1 T\u00e2n D\u00e2n \u0111\u01b0\u1ee3c chia th\u00e0nh 5 nhai \u0111\u1ea1o.\",\n        \"###C\u00e2u tr\u1ea3 l\u1eddi\": \"Th\u00e0nh ph\u1ed1 T\u00e2n D\u00e2n c\u00f3 5 nhai \u0111\u1ea1o.\"\n    }\n]\n```","behavior":"degenerate_repetition","conversation_hash":"f8ebb0652635d61880b30faa8adf28d8","conversation_redacted":false,"conversation_toxic":false,"country":"","empty_output":false,"evidence_codes":[],"label":"absent","label_present":false,"label_qualified":false,"label_source":"Final dense release","language":"Vietnamese","model":"gpt-4o-2024-08-06","n_chars":1520,"n_turns_in_conversation":1,"n_words":290,"source_row_offset":3658,"source_shard":"turns-00039.parquet","timestamp":"Fri, 25 Oct 2024 02:26:06 GMT","turn_id":"c259121d966844a7aae1de30","turn_index":0,"user_text":"\n    Ng\u1eef c\u1ea3nh: T\u00e2n D\u00e2n (ti\u1ebfng Trung: \u65b0\u6c11\u5e02, H\u00e1n Vi\u1ec7t: \"T\u00e2n D\u00e2n th\u1ecb\") L\u00e0 m\u1ed9t th\u00e0nh ph\u1ed1 c\u1ea5p huy\u1ec7n tr\u1ef1c thu\u1ed9c th\u00e0nh ph\u1ed1 c\u1ea5p \u0111\u1ecba khu Th\u1ea9m D\u01b0\u01a1ng (\u6c88\u9633\u5e02), t\u1ec9nh Li\u00eau Ninh, C\u1ed9ng h\u00f2a Nh\u00e2n d\u00e2n Trung Hoa. V\u1ec1 m\u1eb7t h\u00e0nh ch\u00ednh, th\u00e0nh ph\u1ed1 T\u00e2n D\u00e2n \u0111\u01b0\u1ee3c chia th\u00e0nh 5 nhai \u0111\u1ea1o, 11 tr\u1ea5n v\u00e0 13 h\u01b0\u01a1ng.\n\n    T\u1eeb ng\u1eef c\u1ea3nh tr\u00ean h\u00e3y cho t\u00f4i 3 c\u1eb7p c\u00e2u h\u1ecfi - c\u00e2u tr\u1ea3 l\u1eddi c\u00f3 t\u00ednh suy lu\u1eadn (CoT answer) b\u1eb1ng ti\u1ebfng Vi\u1ec7t. Vi\u1ec7c suy lu\u1eadn l\u1ea5y th\u00f4ng tin t\u1eeb ng\u1eef c\u1ea3nh. C\u00e2u tr\u1ea3 l\u1eddi l\u1ea5y tr\u1ef1c ti\u1ebfp trong ng\u1eef c\u1ea3nh, kh\u00f4ng l\u1eb7p l\u1ea1i n\u1ed9i dung c\u00e2u h\u1ecfi.\n    C\u00e2u h\u1ecfi \u0111\u01b0\u1ee3c b\u1ecf v\u00e0o tag ###C\u00e2u h\u1ecfi:\n    Suy lu\u1eadn \u0111\u01b0\u1ee3c b\u1ecf v\u00e0o tag ###Suy lu\u1eadn:\n    C\u00e2u tr\u1ea3 l\u1eddi \u0111\u01b0\u1ee3c b\u1ecf v\u00e0o tag \u0111\u1eb7c bi\u1ec7t ###C\u00e2u tr\u1ea3 l\u1eddi:\n\n    N\u1ebfu ng\u1eef c\u1ea3nh kh\u00f4ng c\u00f3 \u00fd ngh\u0129a, b\u1ea1n h\u00e3y output \"Ng\u1eef c\u1ea3nh kh\u00f4ng gi\u00e1 tr\u1ecb\"\n    Tr\u1ea3 cho t\u00f4i output d\u01b0\u1edbi d\u1ea1ng json \u0111\u1ec3 c\u00f3 th\u1ec3 tr\u00edch xu\u1ea5t m\u1ed9t c\u00e1ch d\u1ec5 d\u00e0ng\n    "},{"assistant_initiates":false,"asst_text":"In the late 1960s, the movie \"Head\" featuring The Monkees emerged as a cultural anomaly, intertwining the psychedelic with satirical commentary. The film, co-written by Jack Nicholson and directed by Bob Rafelson, leaned into the counterculture of 1968, challenging traditional narrative structures and blending surreal sequences with sharp critiques of commercialism and media. Although \"Head\" confounded audiences expecting a typical Monkees romp, the film became a cult classic, resonating with viewers who appreciated its artistic daring and irreverence. Amidst the backdrop of social upheaval, the Vietnam War, and a generation questioning authority, \"Head\" mirrored the chaos and disillusionment of the era. It mocked the manufactured image of The Monkees, questioning the integrity of pop culture as a commercial product. Although initially a box office disappointment, \"Head\" influenced future filmmakers by pushing boundaries of cinematic form and tone, forecasting a trend towards more avant-garde and abstract storytelling in American cinema. This impact lingered in the works of directors exploring similar themes, such as the perception of reality, media influence, and the rebellion against established norms. Its legacy lies not just in its non-linear narrative but in its capacity to encapsulate the feeling of a turbulent period, where traditional values were upended and the search for authenticity was paramount. By embracing chaos and confusion, \"Head\" reflected and contributed to discussions about identity, conformity, and the pervasive power of media in shaping public perception. Over time, audiences revisited the film, gaining appreciation for its experimental approach and social commentary, securing its place as a vital touchstone of the countercultural movement and an early critique of the superficiality within the entertainment industry. Reply finished","behavior":"degenerate_repetition","conversation_hash":"1d065a06f4fbc7cd87e33423a2dd9a15","conversation_redacted":false,"conversation_toxic":false,"country":"United States","empty_output":false,"evidence_codes":[],"label":"absent","label_present":false,"label_qualified":false,"label_source":"Final dense release","language":"English","model":"gpt-4o-2024-08-06","n_chars":4407,"n_turns_in_conversation":1,"n_words":639,"source_row_offset":3659,"source_shard":"turns-00039.parquet","timestamp":"Fri, 25 Oct 2024 02:26:16 GMT","turn_id":"a72c1bbc2ae8588ef7a98cec","turn_index":0,"user_text":"Cultural and Social Impact: Assess the cultural and social impact of 1968 movie Head, analyzing how the film resonated with audiences, influenced pop culture, and contributed to discussions on relevant social or cultural themes.\n\n        Instructions:{ Please write an interesting script with the given context without adding any introductory or concluding remarks.\n        In case you find some more information about this topic then use all information you have to create a large text about this topic.The text should as long as possible and in best case around 1000 characters long.\n        Ensure that there are no emojis, text within brackets, parentheses, or similar symbols in the response. \n        Provide a single coherent response without rephrasing or repeating titles or headings. Avoid enumerations or bullet points. \n        The text is intended for older adults; use simple vocabulary appropriate for a middle school reading level. Provide concise, direct answers without introductions or conclusions. \n        Use transition words at the beginning of your reply instead of the subject name and leave the end open without a concluding sentence. \n        It is very important to provide only the final output without any additional comments or remarks for example: 'Certainly!' Here's the revised text.\n         \n        Please provide the text directly without any labels such as \"Conclusion:\", \"Introduction:\", or \"Transition:\". Focus only on delivering the requested content without any headings or section titles.\n        Please generate a complete and coherent response based on the provided input. Ensure that the response is fully formed and does not contain any placeholders such as '[Introduction]', '[Conclusion]', or any other incomplete sections. \n        The text should flow naturally without any gaps or missing information, and no placeholder markers or brackets should be used. \n        Please respond to my question, and always conclude your reply with the words \"Reply finished\" to indicate that your response is complete. \n        Make sure the reply is fully contained before these words and is not cut off prematurely. Thank you.}\n         Please respond to my question, and always conclude your reply with the words 'Reply finished' to indicate that your response is complete. Ensure that the text is fully formed without any placeholders such as '[Conclusion]' or '[Placeholder]'. Make sure the reply is fully contained before these words and is not cut off prematurely. Thank you."},{"assistant_initiates":false,"asst_text":"Hello! How can I assist you today?","behavior":"degenerate_repetition","conversation_hash":"d6a9b5ec7baa0024275770df10b2d3b3","conversation_redacted":false,"conversation_toxic":false,"country":"France","empty_output":false,"evidence_codes":[],"label":"absent","label_present":false,"label_qualified":false,"label_source":"Final dense release","language":"Nolang","model":"gpt-4o-mini-2024-07-18","n_chars":34,"n_turns_in_conversation":1,"n_words":7,"source_row_offset":3660,"source_shard":"turns-00039.parquet","timestamp":"Fri, 25 Oct 2024 02:26:48 GMT","turn_id":"5f50cb38f32ec211f62109db","turn_index":0,"user_text":""},{"assistant_initiates":false,"asst_text":"```json\n[\n    {\n        \"###C\u00e2u h\u1ecfi\": \"Qu\u00e1 tr\u00ecnh h\u1ee3p nh\u1ea5t v\u00f9ng X\u00e1 T\u01b0 v\u00e0o l\u00e3nh th\u1ed5 nh\u00e0 Nguy\u00ean di\u1ec5n ra nh\u01b0 th\u1ebf n\u00e0o?\",\n        \"###Suy lu\u1eadn\": \"D\u1ef1a v\u00e0o th\u00f4ng tin, v\u00f9ng \u0111\u1ea5t huy\u1ec7n B\u00ecnh Bi\u00ean hi\u1ec7n t\u1ea1i t\u1eebng l\u00e0 m\u1ed9t ph\u1ea7n c\u1ee7a X\u00e1 T\u01b0 thi\u00ean h\u1ed9 s\u1edf v\u00e0o th\u1eddi nh\u00e0 Nguy\u00ean. Ban \u0111\u1ea7u, th\u1ed5 t\u00f9 c\u1ee7a b\u1ed9 l\u1ea1c X\u00e1 T\u01b0 \u0111\u1ee9ng v\u1ec1 ph\u00eda nh\u00e0 Nguy\u00ean.\",\n        \"###C\u00e2u tr\u1ea3 l\u1eddi\": \"V\u00e0o n\u0103m 1276, th\u1ed5 t\u00f9 c\u1ee7a b\u1ed9 l\u1ea1c X\u00e1 T\u01b0 (n\u01b0\u1edbc \u0110\u1ea1i L\u00fd) ti\u1ebfp gi\u00e1p ph\u00eda t\u00e2y nam huy\u1ec7n M\u00f4ng T\u1ef1 ra h\u00e0ng nh\u00e0 Nguy\u00ean v\u00e0 \u0111em v\u00f9ng \u0111\u1ea5t n\u00e0y n\u1ed9i thu\u1ed9c v\u00e0o l\u00e3nh th\u1ed5 nh\u00e0 Nguy\u00ean.\"\n    },\n    {\n        \"###C\u00e2u h\u1ecfi\": \"L\u1ed9 L\u00e2m An v\u00e0o th\u1eddi nh\u00e0 Nguy\u00ean \u0111\u01b0\u1ee3c qu\u1ea3n l\u00fd bao nhi\u00eau huy\u1ec7n v\u00e0 ch\u00e2u?\",\n        \"###Suy lu\u1eadn\": \"Th\u00f4ng tin n\u00f3i r\u00f5 v\u1ec1 l\u00e3nh th\u1ed5 v\u00e0 c\u00e1c \u0111\u01a1n v\u1ecb h\u00e0nh ch\u00ednh d\u01b0\u1edbi l\u1ed9 L\u00e2m An, bao g\u1ed3m c\u00e1c huy\u1ec7n v\u00e0 ch\u00e2u.\",\n        \"###C\u00e2u tr\u1ea3 l\u1eddi\": \"L\u1ed9 L\u00e2m An qu\u1ea3n l\u00fd 4 huy\u1ec7n l\u00e0 Th\u00f4ng H\u1ea3i, H\u00e0 T\u00e2y, T\u1eadp Nga, M\u00f4ng T\u1ef1 v\u00e0 4 ch\u00e2u l\u00e0 Ninh, \u00c1 M\u1ec5, Ki\u1ebfn Th\u1ee7y, Th\u1ea1ch B\u00ecnh.\"\n    },\n    {\n        \"###C\u00e2u h\u1ecfi\": \"C\u00e1c b\u1ed9 l\u1ea1c n\u00e0o \u1edf ph\u00eda nam v\u00e0 \u0111\u00f4ng nam c\u1ee7a L\u00e2m An \u0111\u01b0\u1ee3c nh\u00e0 Nguy\u00ean g\u1ecdi l\u00e0 'thi\u00ean h\u1ed9' s\u1edf?\",\n        \"###Suy lu\u1eadn\": \"Th\u00f4ng tin v\u1ec1 c\u00e1c b\u1ed9 l\u1ea1c l\u00e2n c\u1eadn v\u00e0 c\u00e1ch nh\u00e0 Nguy\u00ean qu\u1ea3n l\u00fd, g\u1ecdi c\u00e1c khu v\u1ef1c n\u00e0y l\u00e0 'thi\u00ean h\u1ed9' s\u1edf.\",\n        \"###C\u00e2u tr\u1ea3 l\u1eddi\": \"\u1ede ph\u00eda ch\u00ednh nam v\u00e0 \u0111\u00f4ng nam c\u1ee7a L\u00e2m An c\u00f3 c\u00e1c b\u1ed9 l\u1ea1c X\u00e1 T\u01b0, V\u01b0\u01a1ng L\u1ed9ng s\u01a1n, Gi\u00e1o H\u00f3a tam b\u1ed9 m\u00e0 nh\u00e0 Nguy\u00ean g\u1ecdi l\u00e0 c\u00e1c 'thi\u00ean h\u1ed9' s\u1edf.\"\n    }\n]\n```","behavior":"degenerate_repetition","conversation_hash":"5f23e9dfd70160539b92a18452721851","conversation_redacted":false,"conversation_toxic":false,"country":"United States","empty_output":false,"evidence_codes":[],"label":"absent","label_present":false,"label_qualified":false,"label_source":"Final dense release","language":"Vietnamese","model":"gpt-4o-2024-08-06","n_chars":3661,"n_turns_in_conversation":1,"n_words":784,"source_row_offset":3661,"source_shard":"turns-00039.parquet","timestamp":"Fri, 25 Oct 2024 02:26:52 GMT","turn_id":"c51958c00f29654ac1295383","turn_index":0,"user_text":"\n    Ng\u1eef c\u1ea3nh: Huy\u1ec7n t\u1ef1 tr\u1ecb d\u00e2n t\u1ed9c Mi\u00eau B\u00ecnh Bi\u00ean (; Ti\u1ebfng H'M\u00f4ng: \"Phij Pia Langs Hmoob Txim Tsim Xyaam\"), g\u1ecdi t\u1eaft l\u00e0 huy\u1ec7n B\u00ecnh Bi\u00ean, l\u00e0 m\u1ed9t huy\u1ec7n t\u1ef1 tr\u1ecb thu\u1ed9c ch\u00e2u t\u1ef1 tr\u1ecb d\u00e2n t\u1ed9c C\u00e1p N\u00ea, Di H\u1ed3ng H\u00e0, t\u1ec9nh V\u00e2n Nam, Trung Qu\u1ed1c. Huy\u1ec7n n\u00e0y r\u1ed9ng 1.905\u00a0km\u00b2 v\u00e0 c\u00f3 15 v\u1ea1n nh\u00e2n kh\u1ea9u (n\u0103m 2005). Huy\u1ec7n l\u1ef5 l\u00e0 th\u1ecb tr\u1ea5n Ng\u1ecdc B\u00ecnh (\u7389\u5c4f\u9547). Ngo\u00e0i th\u1ecb tr\u1ea5n n\u00e0y, B\u00ecnh Bi\u00ean c\u00f2n 6 h\u01b0\u01a1ng tr\u1ea5n n\u1eefa. C\u00e1c h\u01b0\u01a1ng tr\u1ea5n huy\u1ec7n B\u00ecnh Bi\u00ean l\u00e0: 4 tr\u1ea5n Ng\u1ecdc B\u00ecnh (\u7389\u5c4f\u9547), T\u00e2n Hi\u1ec7n (\u65b0\u73b0\u9547), H\u00f2a B\u00ecnh (\u548c\u5e73\u9547), B\u1ea1ch H\u00e0 (\u767d\u6cb3\u9547), v\u00e0 3 h\u01b0\u01a1ng B\u1ea1ch V\u00e2n (\u767d\u4e91\u4e61), T\u00e2n Hoa (\u65b0\u534e\u4e61), Loan \u0110\u01b0\u1eddng (\u6e7e\u5858\u4e61).\nHuy\u1ec7n n\u00e0y ti\u1ebfp gi\u00e1p v\u1edbi M\u00f4ng T\u1ef1 \u1edf ph\u00eda t\u00e2y b\u1eafc, H\u00e0 Kh\u1ea9u \u1edf ph\u00eda Nam, Kim B\u00ecnh ch\u00e2u H\u1ed3ng H\u00e0 \u1edf ph\u00eda T\u00e2y, M\u00e3 Quan ch\u00e2u V\u0103n S\u01a1n \u1edf ph\u00eda \u0110\u00f4ng.\nL\u1ecbch s\u1eed.\nB\u00ecnh Bi\u00ean l\u00e0 v\u00f9ng \u0111\u1ea5t ti\u1ebfp gi\u00e1p ph\u00eda \u0111\u00f4ng nam huy\u1ec7n M\u00f4ng T\u1ef1. V\u00e0o th\u1eddi nh\u00e0 Nguy\u00ean v\u00e0 nh\u00e0 Minh, v\u00f9ng \u0111\u1ea5t huy\u1ec7n B\u00ecnh Bi\u00ean ng\u00e0y nay, nguy\u00ean l\u00e0 ph\u1ea7n \u0111\u1ea5t t\u1eadn c\u00f9ng ph\u00eda nam c\u1ee7a X\u00e1 T\u01b0 thi\u00ean h\u1ed9 s\u1edf sau l\u00e0 An tr\u01b0\u1edfng quan ti ph\u1ee7 L\u00e2m An t\u1ec9nh V\u00e2n Nam Trung Qu\u1ed1c. N\u0103m 1276, th\u1ed5 t\u00f9 c\u1ee7a b\u1ed9 l\u1ea1c X\u00e1 T\u01b0 (n\u01b0\u1edbc \u0110\u1ea1i L\u00fd), ti\u1ebfp gi\u00e1p ph\u00eda t\u00e2y nam huy\u1ec7n M\u00f4ng T\u1ef1 ra h\u00e0ng nh\u00e0 Nguy\u00ean v\u00e0 \u0111em v\u00f9ng \u0111\u1ea5t n\u00e0y n\u1ed9i thu\u1ed9c v\u00e0o l\u00e3nh th\u1ed5 nh\u00e0 Nguy\u00ean. Nh\u00e0 Nguy\u00ean cho \u0111\u1ed5i th\u00e0nh X\u00e1 T\u01b0 thi\u00ean h\u1ed9.\nN\u0103m 1253, sau khi qu\u00e2n M\u00f4ng C\u1ed5 chinh ph\u1ee5c 37 b\u1ed9 l\u1ea1c \u0110i\u1ec1n \u0110\u00f4ng, tr\u00ean v\u00f9ng \u0111\u1ea5t Th\u00f4ng H\u1ea3i ti\u1ebft \u0111\u1ed9 s\u1ee9 c\u1ee7a v\u01b0\u01a1ng qu\u1ed1c \u0110\u1ea1i L\u00fd (h\u1eadu th\u00e2n c\u1ee7a Nam Chi\u1ebfu), ng\u01b0\u1eddi M\u00f4ng C\u1ed5 thi\u1ebft l\u1eadp ra l\u1ed9 L\u00e2m An. L\u1ecb s\u1edf c\u1ee7a l\u1ed9 L\u00e2m An n\u1eb1m t\u1ea1i th\u00e0nh c\u1ed5 l\u00e0 huy\u1ec7n l\u1ecb huy\u1ec7n Th\u00f4ng H\u1ea3i ng\u00e0y nay. L\u1ed9 L\u00e2m An qu\u1ea3n l\u00fd 4 huy\u1ec7n l\u00e0 Th\u00f4ng H\u1ea3i, H\u00e0 T\u00e2y, T\u1eadp Nga, M\u00f4ng T\u1ef1 v\u00e0 4 ch\u00e2u l\u00e0 Ninh, \u00c1 M\u1ec5, Ki\u1ebfn Th\u1ee7y, Th\u1ea1ch B\u00ecnh m\u00e0 sau n\u00e0y t\u1ea1o th\u00e0nh danh x\u01b0ng \u201cL\u00e2m An b\u00e1t thu\u1ed9c\u201d. Ngo\u00e0i ra, \u1edf ph\u00eda ch\u00ednh nam v\u00e0 \u0111\u00f4ng nam c\u1ee7a L\u00e2m An c\u00f2n c\u00f3 c\u00e1c b\u1ed9 l\u1ea1c X\u00e1 T\u01b0 (\u820d\u8cc7), V\u01b0\u01a1ng L\u1ed9ng s\u01a1n (\u738b\u5f04\u5c71), Gi\u00e1o H\u00f3a tam b\u1ed9 (\u6559\u5316\u4e09\u90e8) (c\u00e1c b\u1ed9 l\u1ea1c n\u00e0y v\u1ec1 sau nh\u00e0 Nguy\u00ean g\u1ecdi l\u00e0 c\u00e1c \"thi\u00ean h\u1ed9\" s\u1edf, t\u1ee9c ng\u00e0n h\u1ed9 gia \u0111\u00ecnh). X\u00e1 T\u01b0 thi\u00ean h\u1ed9 s\u1edf n\u1eb1m \u1edf ph\u00eda nam c\u1ee7a l\u1ed9 L\u00e2m An, ti\u1ebfp gi\u00e1p v\u1edbi l\u00e3nh th\u1ed5 \u0110\u1ea1i Vi\u1ec7t.\n\n    T\u1eeb ng\u1eef c\u1ea3nh tr\u00ean h\u00e3y cho t\u00f4i 3 c\u1eb7p c\u00e2u h\u1ecfi - c\u00e2u tr\u1ea3 l\u1eddi c\u00f3 t\u00ednh suy lu\u1eadn (CoT answer) b\u1eb1ng ti\u1ebfng Vi\u1ec7t. Vi\u1ec7c suy lu\u1eadn l\u1ea5y th\u00f4ng tin t\u1eeb ng\u1eef c\u1ea3nh. C\u00e2u tr\u1ea3 l\u1eddi l\u1ea5y tr\u1ef1c ti\u1ebfp trong ng\u1eef c\u1ea3nh, kh\u00f4ng l\u1eb7p l\u1ea1i n\u1ed9i dung c\u00e2u h\u1ecfi.\n    C\u00e2u h\u1ecfi \u0111\u01b0\u1ee3c b\u1ecf v\u00e0o tag ###C\u00e2u h\u1ecfi:\n    Suy lu\u1eadn \u0111\u01b0\u1ee3c b\u1ecf v\u00e0o tag ###Suy lu\u1eadn:\n    C\u00e2u tr\u1ea3 l\u1eddi \u0111\u01b0\u1ee3c b\u1ecf v\u00e0o tag \u0111\u1eb7c bi\u1ec7t ###C\u00e2u tr\u1ea3 l\u1eddi:\n\n    N\u1ebfu ng\u1eef c\u1ea3nh kh\u00f4ng c\u00f3 \u00fd ngh\u0129a, b\u1ea1n h\u00e3y output \"Ng\u1eef c\u1ea3nh kh\u00f4ng gi\u00e1 tr\u1ecb\"\n    Tr\u1ea3 cho t\u00f4i output d\u01b0\u1edbi d\u1ea1ng json \u0111\u1ec3 c\u00f3 th\u1ec3 tr\u00edch xu\u1ea5t m\u1ed9t c\u00e1ch d\u1ec5 d\u00e0ng\n    "},{"assistant_initiates":false,"asst_text":"Hello! I'm just a program, so I don't have feelings, but I'm here to help you. How can I assist you today?","behavior":"degenerate_repetition","conversation_hash":"14ec74bc5fc696257aa9935d09345ad6","conversation_redacted":false,"conversation_toxic":false,"country":"France","empty_output":false,"evidence_codes":[],"label":"absent","label_present":false,"label_qualified":false,"label_source":"Final dense release","language":"English","model":"gpt-4o-2024-08-06","n_chars":123,"n_turns_in_conversation":1,"n_words":26,"source_row_offset":3662,"source_shard":"turns-00039.parquet","timestamp":"Fri, 25 Oct 2024 02:27:01 GMT","turn_id":"6320ac4caaecfc7e004c8989","turn_index":0,"user_text":"hi, how are you?"},{"assistant_initiates":false,"asst_text":"Hello! I'm here and ready to help you. How about you?","behavior":"degenerate_repetition","conversation_hash":"e566265ed4dd895cd6ca7d5b39ec41c6","conversation_redacted":false,"conversation_toxic":false,"country":"South Korea","empty_output":false,"evidence_codes":[],"label":"absent","label_present":false,"label_qualified":false,"label_source":"Final dense release","language":"English","model":"gpt-4o-mini-2024-07-18","n_chars":70,"n_turns_in_conversation":1,"n_words":15,"source_row_offset":3663,"source_shard":"turns-00039.parquet","timestamp":"Fri, 25 Oct 2024 02:27:01 GMT","turn_id":"62dcff33137c3d526929bd08","turn_index":0,"user_text":"hi, how are you?"}],"shard":{"index":39,"name":"turns-00039.parquet","rows":41893}}