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 All right. Now mismatch concepts is indeed what we are using to get there. You should be noticing what is a matched concept from here, and then also the mismatch.

And just to make this easy, let's walk through it. So, what is our matched term between the conclusion and the evidence? What is showing up in both? Yeah, we're getting this and this, right? Notice that inspect is showing up in the conclusion, inspect is also showing up in the evidence. And that means we don't really care a lot about.

The right answer does not need to include the concept of inspect. What it does need to include is the new information. The new information is saying safe.

Notice we had never said safe before. So, what does it seem like the author is connecting to the idea of safe? Seems like it's connecting to not infected, right? Because again, we want that conclusion to be true. We want to be able to say 100% inspected means safe.

All we know right now is inspected means not infected. So, what we would love to know is a connection between these two. We'd love to know the connection between not infected and safe.

Now, what order should we be connecting those words together in? We got to get specific now. So, what order should we be connecting not infected and safe in? So, I got some good news for you, okay? Good news is if there's only one answer that brings up those terms, it doesn't matter, right? So, like if there is only one answer that pairs together safe and not infected, or even just safe and infected, you can choose it. So, let me know in the chat, how many answer choices pair together safety and infected? How many answer choices have those things? Unfortunately, we get a couple of them, right? Because we get E, as many people have been talking about, because it brings up safe and infected, right? We also get D, which is bringing up safe and infected.

And you might even maybe be thinking about C because it does have safe and infected, but then notice it's also bringing up the, if it had been inspected, so that's really bringing up a bit too much there. So, you do have two. In some ways, this is good, because it means you got a 50-50 shots of getting this question correct.

In other words, it's annoying, right? Because it would be nice if we could just get all the way to the right answer. But if there are multiple answers that have the words you need, then you do need to memorize how the connection goes. The way you know the order of connection is based on where the mismatch concept terms are, everybody.

Many of you are saying evidence to conclusion, and you're right. More often we do go from evidence to conclusion, but we would know that because the terms are on the right side. So, mismatch concept terms on right, like on the right side, equals you should be going from evidence to conclusion.

If, however, the mismatch concept terms were on the left side of both terms you were looking at, then you would actually need to connect them going from conclusion to evidence. Now, if anyone would like a little cheat sheet of this information, which I imagine some of you would, you can actually take a look at our strategy sheets. Right there, I went and dropped it in the chat for you.

This is one you've probably seen before. It does have logic games on it, but you can just ignore that. In the top middle of the logical reasoning side, it gives you two Socrates examples, which show this exact thing.

The mismatch concepts on the right side, you're going to connect like this. On the left side, you're going to connect like that. So let me know in the chat, which do you think, well, go ahead and write up a logic, then we'll talk about the answer.

So how would we write the logic for this question if we're connecting from evidence to conclusion? Oh, and Chika, we know right or left because if you look at inspected arrow infected, the infected is on the right of the arrow. Inspected safe, safe is on the right of the arrow. Brianna, that information with Socrates, it is in the lesson book as well.

It is. So how would you write out the logic for that? Yeah, we want to go from evidence to conclusion. Good job.

So that means we should be writing it out as, if not infected, then safe. Exactly right. If not infected, then safe.

Got to be sure we've got it in that order. Be careful with that. So not infected from the evidence, we're going to safe in the conclusion, because I'm seeing some a little bit different than that.

Now it is possible that the right answer could be a contrapositive, but before you worry about that, let's go and take a look at the answers. Answer choice D. Go ahead and write out for me, what is the formal logic of answer choice D, everybody? Yeah, the any is where we should be starting, right? The any is the if, right? So, this is saying if infected, then it is not safe to eat. Oops.

No, no, no, no. It's supposed to be if it's not infected, then it's safe to eat. Answer choice D is a super tempting trap, but it is wrong.

The nice thing is, as soon as you know answer choice D is wrong, if you've whittled it down to D and E, E must be right. But if you want to go and write out answer choice E, again, this any is the if. So that's going to be written out as uninfected.

A little tricky there, right? But that just means that it is not infected. So, if not infected, then it's safe. Notice that that, yay, is a match for our original.

Now, is this super easy? Is this a nice, quick question that you can solve early on in the section? What do you think? For most test takers, likely no. For most test takers, this is, again, a question you should skip early, right? However, once you know this stuff, it can actually be pretty fast, or at least faster than it would have been otherwise. And that's why we're talking about this, everybody.

Test day is not tomorrow. You got a whole week that you can be practicing. Now, again, don't obsess about this.

Don't feel like you got to do a million formal logic questions. But if this was really hard for you, it could be a very smart thing for you to watch our sufficient assumption channel lesson, or watch our formal logic and logical reasoning channel lesson, if you haven't watched that recently, and to review what is written on that strategy sheet I shared about Socrates, about how terms are connected. And also keep in mind, even if you didn't want to do this question on test day, just by noticing that this conclusion is bringing up the brand new term, safe to eat, and the repeated term of inspected, that we don't care about, unless we likely care about the other term next to inspected, you could have a 50-50 shot of getting this right, that D or E is going to be correct, just through your ability to notice matched and mismatched concepts.

So, without even writing any logic, you got a better chance than many test takers for solving this question. All right, I definitely have more that I want to show you and talk with you about tonight. Let's go ahead and continue onward.

We are going to do another pretty darn tough question, but also a very good question, a question that's got some solid logic going on in it. So here it is, everybody, this is on page 419 in your lesson book, another one you might have seen before. Obviously, we're telling you it's an inference question up at the top.

How would you know that it is an inference question? Bridget, that's correct. It's only if it's on the right side, it's mutually exclusive. So, this is truth language.

Yeah, whenever you see truth, talk about like must be true, must be false, anything like that, that's going to inform you, oh, this is a question of inference. And also, when the truth language is used instead of support, it's very likely that formal logic will be present. Now, I do want to make sure everyone is clear as to what the right answer is going to be doing.

So, since it is a could be true except, please tell me, what will the correct choice do in this question? Yeah, the one right answer will not be a could be true, which means it will be a must be false. Exactly. You can think of that as a 180.

Everybody, we want an answer that's going against the text here. The four wrong answers will all be things that are possible. And please note, if you don't know if an answer is true or not, it could be true.

So, like if one of these answers says cupcakes are delicious, and you're like, the stimulus didn't say anything about cupcakes, that could be true. Now, in terms of doing this question, I am going to let you do this question on your own. But please note, we do see addition to formal logic language like the all, which is like any, and the no.

So, two things we just practiced. We also see a most. What does most mean, everybody? Just to be clear.

Most means, yeah, more than half. Some's going to mean at least one, most is going to mean more than half. So that could matter, though we would say, you know, start with this stuff that's really concrete first.

Start by translating the formal logic, and then you can get into the rest of it. All right, all, good luck on this. We'll see you again in a minute 20.

Talk about how your translations went. And if all you do is translate the stimulus in the same way we did the last question, that is still moving you in the right direction. All right, before we reveal your answers on this, well, let's talk a little bit about some of the things that you might have written out for yourself.

Once again, we've got that no one's that's going to move to the necessary side and there become negative telling us that if you're working 18 hours a day, then you're not going to have time for the leisure activities. And we also learned that all, all is that if, so that's going to be if happy entrepreneur, then they do have time for leisure activities. You might already be noticing something interesting that's going on here.

But then we do also get that first sentence that most, so just let me write the most, most successful entrepreneurs are working at least 18 hours. So once again, if you just had what's currently on screen, you're winning, you're moving in the right direction. Now, who out there noticed that there was a repetition of the 18 and considered connecting that together? Did anyone say to themselves, wait a second, this tells me most successful entrepreneurs work 18 hours.

And I also learned that if you work 18 hours, you're not going to have time for leisure activities. You can totally do that. You can break that longer chain.

We couldn't do that in the previous question, but you can definitely do that here. Now, one other thing you might've noticed is you might've seen LA here, LA here. What could we maybe do everybody? What could we, what could we perhaps think of doing? You could start making some contrapositives from this information.

Now, before I do that, I'll go ahead and show your answers. Let's go ahead and see how people did on this. And wowza everybody.

I know that last question was tough. So is this one. Normally we only see 36% of test takers get right.

Y'all almost doubled that with 67% getting it right. Very nicely done. And this really does come from the contrapositive.

So, the way that contrapositive can be useful to us, the way that can be nice for us is again, we've got that 18, then no time for leisure activities, right? But if we make some contrapositive, we say, well, if you do have time for leisure activities, then you are not working 18 hours, right? So that's one that you could make. You could also make this one. If you do not have time for leisure activities, then you are not a happy entrepreneur.

So, notice this, contrapositive this, this, contrapositive this. Now this, this, you can move up. You can connect to this one right here.

And that would then be, if you don't have time for leisure activities, you are not a happy entrepreneur. So that's where that's coming from. I just took this contrapositive, moved it up there.

Now you might say, Jeff, how does that solve the question? Well, that shows me 18 doesn't have time for leisure activities, not a happy entrepreneur, right? But how does answer choice D tell me something false? D claims what? D claims that there are ones that are working 18 who are happy. No, it's impossible. If you're working 18, you don't have time for leisure activities.

You are not a happy entrepreneur. It's impossible to have an entrepreneur that's working 18 hours and be happy. And notice where that is coming from.

Like, yes, I did go ahead and write out the most successful entrepreneur's component, but really the only part of the logic that you need to focus on is this. Let's get to this right answer, which is just this no part and the all part. So that gets you to the correct.

Now, of course, anyone's got any questions about those other answer choices, please talk to the amazing teacher Harry in the Q&A, but I hope this goes to show why that's what we're grabbing. Victor, I assume you mean the other answer choices. I don't have time for that and to get to the other questions, but teacher Harry absolutely can.

And also, I'm not going anywhere after this class is over. So, if you want to stick around after hours, I will happily go back to any of these answer choices that you would like to discuss that you didn't get to talk with Harry about. So please stick around if you want to do that.

I do want to prove to you all, though, that not only does your ability to translate these sorts of statements help you, but sometimes just being aware of the existence of formal logic is all you need to have a really good guess. This is going to be our last formal logic question. This is on page 270 of your book.

One, again, you might have done previously. So, when we look at the question, we see it's law. We see it's law.

Now, what is something you might notice about this question as you are reading it? What's something you spot? Conditional language. Mimi, absolutely right. If.

Right here. Right here. Now, if the test makers are giving you a law question with formal logic in it, what is very likely going to be the flaw, everybody? It's probably going to be a confusion of necessity versus sufficiency.

So, if you only had 10 seconds left on this section and this question was sitting in front of you, what would be a very smart strategic guess? Exactly right. Because answer choice A says, treats a sufficient condition as a necessary condition. That is confusing sufficiency and necessity.

That's all good. So, the reason I mentioned this, everybody, is I know we just did some monster questions. This was purposeful.

Want to make sure you got to see some tough content. All right. But also keep in mind that just being aware of formal logic's existence on the LSAT and trends associated with answer choices, just that can help move the needle on your score increasing.

Now, of course, if you had a standard amount of time, you would want to write out the formal logic and see that, yes, indeed, they are making a bad contrapositive. I'm not as why A is right. But I just want to again prove, even if you're not doing those really hard high-end questions where you're writing lots of formal logic, just recognizing formal logic can be useful.

Victor, no, absolutely not. That's why I called it a strategic guess. You would be making a strategic guess that because there's formal logic in the flaw question, thus too, the answer is going to be a confusion.

I would say if you see a flaw question in the earlier part of the section, like the first 12 that is formal logic, very likely that's going to be the answer. Notice this was question 11, whereas if this was in the danger zone, they'd probably be trying to fool you, which is what Anshika is talking about. Yeah.

If you're in the danger zone and they give you formal logic and a flaw question, you're probably trying to throw that wolf over your ass. So, once you know, try to do a bit more practice with formal logic and logical reasoning one way or another, not because you're going to see a ton of these questions on test day, just because you could end up seeing a couple of them. The last and final thing we heard was a bit more open-ended inference questions in reading comprehension.

In fact, we heard this from one student happening a little bit more than expected in comparative reading, which immediately made me think of a favorite essay of mine, Oil Well Drilling. This essay, everybody, is really interesting because it has a couple super open-ended questions. I want to close out our session today by taking a look at them and talking about how to be strategic when dealing with open-ended inference.

Yeah, these two passages can be brutal. The questions associated with it can be brutal, but we have such a good tip for you all if you find yourself in this situation. So, I know for many of you, this is just going to be a review of these two essays.

Go and give them a read. They're on page 598. I will also slowly click through the passages.

**Caption Split Suggestions:**

1. All right. Now mismatch concepts is indeed  
   what we are using to get there.

2. You should be noticing what is a matched  
   concept from here, and then also the mismatch.

3. And just to make this easy, let's walk through it.  
   So, what is our matched term between the conclusion  
   and the evidence?

4. What is showing up in both? Yeah, we're getting  
   this and this, right?

5. Notice that inspect is showing up in the conclusion,  
   inspect is also showing up in the evidence.

6. And that means we don't really care a lot about.  
   The right answer does not need to include  
   the concept of inspect.

7. What it does need to include is the new information.  
   The new information is saying safe.

8. Notice we had never said safe before.  
   So, what does it seem like the author is  
   connecting to the idea of safe?

9. Seems like it's connecting to not infected, right?  
   Because again, we want that conclusion to be true.

10. We want to be able to say 100% inspected means safe.  
    All we know right now is inspected means not infected.

11. So, what we would love to know is a connection  
    between these two.

12. We'd love to know the connection between  
    not infected and safe.

13. Now, what order should we be connecting those words  
    together in? We got to get specific now.

14. So, what order should we be connecting  
    not infected and safe in?

15. So, I got some good news for you, okay?  
    Good news is if there's only one answer  
    that brings up those terms, it doesn't matter, right?

16. So, like if there is only one answer that pairs together  
    safe and not infected, or even just safe and infected,  
    you can choose it.

17. So, let me know in the chat, how many answer choices  
    pair together safety and infected?

18. How many answer choices have those things?  
    Unfortunately, we get a couple of them, right?

19. Because we get E, as many people have been talking about,  
    because it brings up safe and infected, right?

20. We also get D, which is bringing up safe and infected.  
    And you might even maybe be thinking about C because  
    it does have safe and infected, but then

21. Notice it's also bringing up the, if it had been inspected,  
    so that's really bringing up a bit too much there.

22. So, you do have two. In some ways, this is good,  
    because it means you got a 50-50 shots  
    of getting this question correct.

23. In other words, it's annoying, right?  
    Because it would be nice if we could just get  
    all the way to the right answer.

24. But if there are multiple answers that have the words  
    you need, then you do need to memorize how the connection goes.

25. The way you know the order of connection is based on  
    where the mismatch concept terms are, everybody.

26. Many of you are saying evidence to conclusion,  
    and you're right.

27. More often we do go from evidence to conclusion,  
    but we would know that because the terms are  
    on the right side.

28. So, mismatch concept terms on right, like on the right  
    side, equals you should be going from evidence  
    to conclusion.

29. If, however, the mismatch concept terms were on the left  
    side of both terms you were looking at, then you would  
    actually need to connect them going from conclusion to evidence.

30. Now, if anyone would like a little cheat sheet  
    of this information, which I imagine some of you would,  
    you can actually take a look at our strategy sheets.

31. Right there, I went and dropped it in the chat for you.  
    This is one you've probably seen before.

32. It does have logic games on it, but you can just ignore that.  
    In the top middle of the logical reasoning side, it gives you  
    two Socrates examples, which show this exact thing.

33. The mismatch concepts on the right side, you're going to  
    connect like this. On the left side, you're going to connect  
    like that.

34. So let me know in the chat, which do you think,  
    well, go ahead and write up a logic,  
    then we'll talk about the answer.

35. So how would we write the logic for this question  
    if we're connecting from evidence to conclusion?

36. Oh, and Chika, we know right or left because if you look  
    at inspected arrow infected, the infected is  
    on the right of the arrow.

37. Inspected safe, safe is on the right of the arrow.  
    Brianna, that information with Socrates,  
    it is in the lesson book as well.

38. It is. So how would you write out the logic for that?  
    Yeah, we want to go from evidence to conclusion.  
    Good job.

39. So that means we should be writing it out as,  
    if not infected, then safe. Exactly right.

40. If not infected, then safe. Got to be sure we've got it  
    in that order. Be careful with that.

41. So not infected from the evidence, we're going to safe  
    in the conclusion, because I'm seeing some  
    a little bit different than that.

42. Now it is possible that the right answer could be  
    a contrapositive, but before you worry about that,  
    let's go and take a look at the answers.

43. Answer choice D. Go ahead and write out for me,  
    what is the formal logic of answer choice D, everybody?

44. Yeah, the any is where we should be starting, right?  
    The any is the if, right?

45. So, this is saying if infected, then it is not safe to eat.  
    Oops.

46. No, no, no, no. It's supposed to be if it's not infected,  
    then it's safe to eat. Answer choice D is a super tempting trap,  
    but it is wrong.

47. The nice thing is, as soon as you know answer choice D  
    is wrong, if you've whittled it down to D and E,  
    E must be right.

48. But if you want to go and write out answer choice E,  
    again, this any is the if.

49. So that's going to be written out as uninfected.  
    A little tricky there, right? But that just means  
    that it is not infected.

50. So, if not infected, then it's safe. Notice that that,  
    yay, is a match for our original.

51. Now, is this super easy? Is this a nice, quick question  
    that you can solve early on in the section?  
    What do you think?

52. For most test takers, likely no. For most test takers,  
    this is, again, a question you should skip early, right?

53. However, once you know this stuff, it can actually  
    be pretty fast, or at least faster than it would have been otherwise.  
    And that's why we're talking about this, everybody.

54. Test day is not tomorrow. You got a whole week  
    that you can be practicing. Now, again, don't obsess about this.

55. Don't feel like you got to do a million formal logic questions.  
    But if this was really hard for you, it could be a very smart thing  
    for you to watch our sufficient assumption channel lesson,

56. Or watch our formal logic and logical reasoning channel lesson,  
    if you haven't watched that recently, and to review what is written  
    on that strategy sheet I shared about Socrates, about how terms are connected.

57. And also keep in mind, even if you didn't want to do this question  
    on test day, just by noticing that this conclusion is bringing up the brand new term,  
    safe to eat, and the repeated term of inspected,

58. that we don't care about, unless we likely care about the other term  
    next to inspected, you could have a 50-50 shot of getting this right,  
    that D or E is going to be correct, just through your ability to notice matched  
    and mismatched concepts.

59. So, without even writing any logic, you got a better chance than many test takers  
    for solving this question. All right,

60. I definitely have more that I want to show you and talk with you about tonight.  
    Let's go ahead and continue onward.

61. We are going to do another pretty darn tough question,  
    but also a very good question, a question that's got some solid logic going on in it.

62. So here it is, everybody, this is on page 419 in your lesson book,  
    another one you might have seen before.

63. Obviously, we're telling you it's an inference question up at the top.  
    How would you know that it is an inference question?

64. Bridget, that's correct. It's only if it's on the right side, it's mutually exclusive.  
    So, this is truth language. 

65. Yeah, whenever you see truth, talk about like must be true, must be false,  
    anything like that, that's going to inform you, oh, this is a question of inference.

66. And also, when the truth language is used instead of support, it's very likely  
    that formal logic will be present.

67. Now, I do want to make sure everyone is clear as to what the right answer  
    is going to be doing.

68. So, since it is a could be true except, please tell me, what will the  
    correct choice do in this question?

69. Yeah, the one right answer will not be a could be true,  
    which means it will be a must be false. Exactly.

70. You can think of that as a 180. Everybody, we want an answer  
    that's going against the text here.

71. The four wrong answers will all be things that are possible.  
    And please note, if you don't know if an answer is true or not, it could be true.

72. So, like if one of these answers says cupcakes are delicious,  
    and you're like, the stimulus didn't say anything about cupcakes, that could be true.

73. Now, in terms of doing this question, I am going to let you  
    do this question on your own.

74. But please note, we do see addition to formal logic language  
    like the all, which is like any, and the no.

75. So, two things we just practiced. We also see a most.  
    What does most mean, everybody? Just to be clear.

76. Most means, yeah, more than half. Some's going to mean  
    at least one, most is going to mean more than half.

77. So that could matter, though we would say, you know,  
    start with this stuff that's really concrete first.

78. Start by translating the formal logic, and then you can get into the rest of it.  
    All right, all, good luck on this. We'll see you again in a minute 20.

79. Talk about how your translations went. And if all you do is translate the stimulus  
    in the same way we did the last question, 

80. that is still moving you in the right direction.  
    All right, before we reveal your answers on this,  

81. well, let's talk a little bit about some of the things  
    that you might have written out for yourself.

82. Once again, we've got that no one's that's going  
    to move to the necessary side and there become negative telling us  

83. That if you're working 18 hours a day, then you're not going  
    to have time for the leisure activities. 

84. And we also learned that all, all is that if, so that's going  
    to be if happy entrepreneur, then they do have time for leisure activities.

85. You might already be noticing something interesting  
    that's going on here. 

86. But then we do also get that first sentence that most,  
    so just let me write the most, most successful entrepreneurs  
    are working at least 18 hours.

87. So once again, if you just had what's currently on screen,  
    you're winning, you're moving in the right direction.

88. Now, who out there noticed that there was a repetition  
    of the 18 and considered connecting that together? 

89. Did anyone say to themselves, wait a second,  
    this tells me most successful entrepreneurs work 18 hours. 

90. And I also learned that if you work 18 hours,  
    you're not going to have time for leisure activities. 

91. You can totally do that. You can break that longer chain.  
    We couldn't do that in the previous question,  
    but you can definitely do that here. 

92. Now, one other thing you might've noticed is you might've seen  
    LA here, LA here. What could we maybe do everybody? 

93. What could we, what could we perhaps think of doing?  
    You could start making some contrapositives from this information. 

94. Now, before I do that, I'll go ahead and show your answers.  
    Let's go ahead and see how people did on this. And wowza everybody.

95. I know that last question was tough. So is this one.  
    Normally we only see 36% of test takers get right. 

96. Y'all almost doubled that with 67% getting it right.  
    Very nicely done. And this really does come from the contrapositive.

97. So, the way that contrapositive can be useful to us, the way  
    that can be nice for us is again, we've got that 18,  
    then no time for leisure activities, right? 

98. But if we make some contrapositive, we say, well,  
    if you do have time for leisure activities, then you are not  
    working 18 hours, right? So that's one that you could make. 

99. You could also make this one. If you do not have time  
    for leisure activities, then you are not a happy entrepreneur.

100. So, notice this, contrapositive this, this, contrapositive this.  
     Now this, this, you can move up. You can connect to this one right here.

101. And that would then be, if you don't have time for leisure activities,  
     you are not a happy entrepreneur. So that's where that's coming from.

102. I just took this contrapositive, moved it up there.  
     Now you might say, Jeff, how does that solve the question? 

103. Well, that shows me 18 doesn't have time for leisure activities,  
     not a happy entrepreneur, right? 

104. But how does answer choice D tell me something false?  
     D claims what? D claims that there are ones that are working 18  
     who are happy. No, it's impossible. 

105. If you're working 18, you don't have time for leisure activities.  
     You are not a happy entrepreneur. 

106. It's impossible to have an entrepreneur that's working 18 hours  
     and be happy. And notice where that is coming from.

107. Like, yes, I did go ahead and write out the most successful entrepreneur's  
     component, but really the only part of the logic that you need to focus on is this. 

108. Let's get to this right answer, which is just this no part  
     and the all part. So that gets you to the correct.

109. Now, of course, anyone's got any questions about those other answer choices,  
     please talk to the amazing teacher Harry in the Q&A,  
     but I hope this goes to show why that's what we're grabbing.

110. Victor, I assume you mean the other answer choices. I don't have time  
     for that and to get to the other questions, but teacher Harry absolutely can.

111. And also, I'm not going anywhere after this class is over.  
     So, if you want to stick around after hours, I will happily go back  
     to any of these answer choices that you would like to discuss  
     that you didn't get to talk with Harry about. So please stick around  
     if you want to do that.

112. I do want to prove to you all, though, that not only does your ability  
     to translate these sorts of statements help you, but sometimes  
     just being aware of the existence of formal logic is all you need  
     to have a really good guess.  

113. This is going to be our last formal logic question.  
     This is on page 270 of your book. One, again, you might have done previously. 
     
114. So, when we look at the question, we see it's law. We see it's law.  

115. Now, what is something you might notice about this question  
     as you are reading it? What's something you spot? 

116. Conditional language. Mimi, absolutely right. If.   
     Right here. Right here.  

117. Now, if the test makers are giving you a law question  
     with formal logic in it, what is very likely going to be the flaw, everybody? 

118. It's probably going to be a confusion of necessity versus sufficiency. 

119. So, if you only had 10 seconds left on this section  
     and this question was sitting in front of you,  
     what would be a very smart strategic guess? 

120. Exactly right. Because answer choice A says, treats a sufficient  
     condition as a necessary condition.  

121. That is confusing sufficiency and necessity.  
     That's all good. So, the reason I mentioned this, everybody, 
     
122. is I know we just did some monster questions. This was purposeful.  

123. Want to make sure you got to see some tough content.  
     All right. But also keep in mind that just being aware  
     of formal logic's existence on the LSAT and trends associated  
     with answer choices, just that can help move the needle  
     on your score increasing.   

124. Now, of course, if you had a standard amount of time,  
     you would want to write out the formal logic and see that,  
     yes, indeed, they are making a bad contrapositive.  

125. I'm not as why A is right. But I just want to again prove,  
     even if you're not doing those really hard high-end questions  
     where you're writing lots of formal logic, just recognizing  
     formal logic can be useful.   

126. Victor, no, absolutely not. That's why I called it a strategic guess.  
     You would be making a strategic guess that because there's formal  
     logic in the flaw question, thus too, the answer is going to be a confusion.  

127. I would say if you see a flaw question in the earlier part of the section,  
     like the first 12 that is formal logic, very likely that's going to be the answer. 

128. Notice this was question 11, whereas if this was in the danger zone,  
     they'd probably be trying to fool you, which is what Anshika is talking about.  
     Yeah.  

129. If you're in the danger zone and they give you formal logic  
     and a flaw question, you're probably trying to throw that wolf over your ass. 
     
130. So, once you know, try to do a bit more practice with formal logic  
     and logical reasoning one way or another, not because you're going to see  
     a ton of these questions on test day, just because you could end up  
     seeing a couple of them.

131. The last and final thing we heard was a bit more open-ended inference  
     questions in reading comprehension. In fact, we heard this from one student  
     happening a little bit more than expected in comparative reading,  
     which immediately made me think of a favorite essay of mine, Oil Well Drilling.  

132. This essay, everybody, is really interesting because it has a couple  
     super open-ended questions. I want to close out our session today  

133. by taking a look at them and talking about how to be strategic  
     when dealing with open-ended inference.  

134. Yeah, these two passages can be brutal.  
     The questions associated with it can be brutal,  

135. but we have such a good tip for you all if you find yourself in this situation.  
     So, I know for many of you, this is just going to be a review  
     of these two essays. 

136. Go and give them a read. They're on page 598.  
     I will also slowly click through the passages.

Remove the numbering

Sure, here is the text without numbering:

---

All right. Now mismatch concepts is indeed  
what we are using to get there.

You should be noticing what is a matched  
concept from here, and then also the mismatch.

And just to make this easy, let's walk through it.  
So, what is our matched term between the conclusion  
and the evidence?

What is showing up in both? Yeah, we're getting  
this and this, right?

Notice that inspect is showing up in the conclusion,  
inspect is also showing up in the evidence.

And that means we don't really care a lot about.  
The right answer does not need to include  
the concept of inspect.

What it does need to include is the new information.  
The new information is saying safe.

Notice we had never said safe before.  
So, what does it seem like the author is  
connecting to the idea of safe?

Seems like it's connecting to not infected, right?  
Because again, we want that conclusion to be true.

We want to be able to say 100% inspected means safe.  
All we know right now is inspected means not infected.

So, what we would love to know is a connection  
between these two.

We'd love to know the connection between  
not infected and safe.

Now, what order should we be connecting those words  
together in? We got to get specific now.

So, what order should we be connecting  
not infected and safe in?

So, I got some good news for you, okay?  
Good news is if there's only one answer  
that brings up those terms, it doesn't matter, right?

So, like if there is only one answer that pairs together  
safe and not infected, or even just safe and infected,  
you can choose it.

So, let me know in the chat, how many answer choices  
pair together safety and infected?

How many answer choices have those things?  
Unfortunately, we get a couple of them, right?

Because we get E, as many people have been talking about,  
because it brings up safe and infected, right?

We also get D, which is bringing up safe and infected.  
And you might even maybe be thinking about C because  
it does have safe and infected, but then

Notice it's also bringing up the, if it had been inspected,  
so that's really bringing up a bit too much there.

So, you do have two. In some ways, this is good,  
because it means you got a 50-50 shots  
of getting this question correct.

In other words, it's annoying, right?  
Because it would be nice if we could just get  
all the way to the right answer.

But if there are multiple answers that have the words  
you need, then you do need to memorize how the connection goes.

The way you know the order of connection is based on  
where the mismatch concept terms are, everybody.

Many of you are saying evidence to conclusion,  
and you're right.

More often we do go from evidence to conclusion,  
but we would know that because the terms are  
on the right side.

So, mismatch concept terms on right, like on the right  
side, equals you should be going from evidence  
to conclusion.

If, however, the mismatch concept terms were on the left  
side of both terms you were looking at, then you would  
actually need to connect them going from conclusion to evidence.

Now, if anyone would like a little cheat sheet  
of this information, which I imagine some of you would,  
you can actually take a look at our strategy sheets.

Right there, I went and dropped it in the chat for you.  
This is one you've probably seen before.

It does have logic games on it, but you can just ignore that.  
In the top middle of the logical reasoning side, it gives you  
two Socrates examples, which show this exact thing.

The mismatch concepts on the right side, you're going to  
connect like this. On the left side, you're going to connect  
like that.

So let me know in the chat, which do you think,  
well, go ahead and write up a logic,  
then we'll talk about the answer.

So how would we write the logic for this question  
if we're connecting from evidence to conclusion?

Oh, and Chika, we know right or left because if you look  
at inspected arrow infected, the infected is  
on the right of the arrow.

Inspected safe, safe is on the right of the arrow.  
Brianna, that information with Socrates,  
it is in the lesson book as well.

It is. So how would you write out the logic for that?  
Yeah, we want to go from evidence to conclusion.  
Good job.

So that means we should be writing it out as,  
if not infected, then safe. Exactly right.

If not infected, then safe. Got to be sure we've got it  
in that order. Be careful with that.

So not infected from the evidence, we're going to safe  
in the conclusion, because I'm seeing some  
a little bit different than that.

Now it is possible that the right answer could be  
a contrapositive, but before you worry about that,  
let's go and take a look at the answers.

Answer choice D. Go ahead and write out for me,  
what is the formal logic of answer choice D, everybody?

Yeah, the any is where we should be starting, right?  
The any is the if, right?

So, this is saying if infected, then it is not safe to eat.  
Oops.

No, no, no, no. It's supposed to be if it's not infected,  
then it's safe to eat. Answer choice D is a super tempting trap,  
but it is wrong.

The nice thing is, as soon as you know answer choice D  
is wrong, if you've whittled it down to D and E,  
E must be right.

But if you want to go and write out answer choice E,  
again, this any is the if.

So that's going to be written out as uninfected.  
A little tricky there, right? But that just means  
that it is not infected.

So, if not infected, then it's safe. Notice that that,  
yay, is a match for our original.

Now, is this super easy? Is this a nice, quick question  
that you can solve early on in the section?  
What do you think?

For most test takers, likely no. For most test takers,  
this is, again, a question you should skip early, right?

However, once you know this stuff, it can actually  
be pretty fast, or at least faster than it would have been otherwise.  
And that's why we're talking about this, everybody.

Test day is not tomorrow. You got a whole week  
that you can be practicing. Now, again, don't obsess about this.

Don't feel like you got to do a million formal logic questions.  
But if this was really hard for you, it could be a very smart thing  
for you to watch our sufficient assumption channel lesson,

Or watch our formal logic and logical reasoning channel lesson,  
if you haven't watched that recently, and to review what is written  
on that strategy sheet I shared about Socrates, about how terms are connected.

And also keep in mind, even if you didn't want to do this question  
on test day, just by noticing that this conclusion is bringing up the brand new term,  
safe to eat, and the repeated term of inspected,

that we don't care about, unless we likely care about the other term  
next to inspected, you could have a 50-50 shot of getting this right,  
that D or E is going to be correct, just through your ability to notice matched  
and mismatched concepts.

So, without even writing any logic, you got a better chance than many test takers  
for solving this question. All right,

I definitely have more that I want to show you and talk with you about tonight.  
Let's go ahead and continue onward.

We are going to do another pretty darn tough question,  
but also a very good question, a question that's got some solid logic going on in it.

So here it is, everybody, this is on page 419 in your lesson book,  
another one you might have seen before.

Obviously, we're telling you it's an inference question up at the top.  
How would you know that it is an inference question?

Bridget, that's correct. It's only if it's on the right side, it's mutually exclusive.  
So, this is truth language. 

Yeah, whenever you see truth, talk about like must be true, must be false,  
anything like that, that's going to inform you, oh, this is a question of inference.

And also, when the truth language is used instead of support, it's very likely  
that formal logic will be present.

Now, I do want to make sure everyone is clear as to what the right answer  
is going to be doing.

So, since it is a could be true except, please tell me, what will the  
correct choice do in this question?

Yeah, the one right answer will not be a could be true,  
which means it will be a must be false. Exactly.

You can think of that as a 180. Everybody, we want an answer  
that's going against the text here.

The four wrong answers will all be things that are possible.  
And please note, if you don't know if an answer is true or not, it could be true.

So, like if one of these answers says cupcakes are delicious,  
and you're like, the stimulus didn't say anything about cupcakes, that could be true.

Now, in terms of doing this question, I am going to let you  
do this question on your own.

But please note, we do see addition to formal logic language  
like the all, which is like any, and the no.

So, two things we just practiced. We also see a most.  
What does most mean, everybody? Just to be clear.

Most means, yeah, more than half. Some's going to mean  
at least one, most is going to mean more than half.

So that could matter, though we would say, you know,  
start with this stuff that's really concrete first.

Start by translating the formal logic, and then you can get into the rest of it.  
All right, all, good luck on this. We'll see you again in a minute 20.

Talk about how your translations went. And if all you do is translate the stimulus  
in the same way we did the last question, 

that is still moving you in the right direction.  
All right, before we reveal your answers on this,  

well, let's talk a little bit about some of the things  
that you might have written out for yourself.

Once again, we've got that no one's that's going  
to move to the necessary side and there become negative telling us  

That if you're working 18 hours a day, then you're not going  
to have time for the leisure activities. 

And we also learned that all, all is that if, so that's going  
to be if happy entrepreneur, then they do have time for leisure activities.

You might already be noticing something interesting  
that's going on here. 

But then we do also get that first sentence that most,  
so just let me write the most, most successful entrepreneurs  
are working at least 18 hours.

So once again, if you just had what's currently on screen,  
you're winning, you're moving in the right direction.

Now, who out there noticed that there was a repetition  
of the 18 and considered connecting that together? 

Did anyone say to themselves, wait a second,  
this tells me most successful entrepreneurs work 18 hours. 

And I also learned that if you work 18 hours,  
you're not going to have time for leisure activities. 

You can totally do that. You can break that longer chain.  
We couldn't do that in the previous question,  
but you can definitely do that here. 

Now, one other thing you might've noticed is you might've seen  
LA here, LA here. What could we maybe do everybody? 

What could we, what could we perhaps think of doing?  
You could start making some contrapositives from this information. 

Now, before I do that, I'll go ahead and show your answers.  
Let's go ahead and see how people did on this. And wowza everybody.

I know that last question was tough. So is this one.  
Normally we only see 36% of test takers get right. 

Y'all almost doubled that with 67% getting it right.  
Very nicely done. And this really does come from the contrapositive.

So, the way that contrapositive can be useful to us, the way  
that can be nice for us is again, we've got that 18,  
then no time for leisure activities, right? 

But if we make some contrapositive, we say, well,  
if you do have time for leisure activities, then you are not  
working 18 hours, right? So that's one that you could make. 

You could also make this one. If you do not have time  
for leisure activities, then you are not a happy entrepreneur.

So, notice this, contrapositive this, this, contrapositive this.  
Now this, this, you can move up. You can connect to this one right here.

And that would then be, if you don't have time for leisure activities,  
you are not a happy entrepreneur. So that's where that's coming from.

I just took this contrapositive, moved it up there.  
Now you might say, Jeff, how does that solve the question? 

Well, that shows me 18 doesn't have time for leisure activities,  
not a happy entrepreneur, right? 

But how does answer choice D tell me something false?  
D claims what? D claims that there are ones that are working 18  
who are happy. No, it's impossible. 

If you're working 18, you don't have time for leisure activities.  
You are not a happy entrepreneur. 

It's impossible to have an entrepreneur that's working 18 hours  
and be happy. And notice where that is coming from.

Like, yes, I did go ahead and write out the most successful entrepreneur's  
component, but really the only part of the logic that you need to focus on is this. 

Let's get to this right answer, which is just this no part  
and the all part. So that gets you to the correct.

Now, of course, anyone's got any questions about those other answer choices,  
please talk to the amazing teacher Harry in the Q&A,  
but I hope this goes to show why that's what we're grabbing.

Victor, I assume you mean the other answer choices. I don't have time  
for that and to get to the other questions, but teacher Harry absolutely can.

And also, I'm not going anywhere after this class is over.  
So, if you want to stick around after hours, I will happily go back  
to any of these answer choices that you would like to discuss  
that you didn't get to talk with Harry about. So please stick around  
if you want to do that.

I do want to prove to you all, though, that not only does your ability  
to translate these sorts of statements help you, but sometimes  
just being aware of the existence of formal logic is all you need  
to have a really good guess.  

This is going to be our last formal logic question.  
This is on page 270 of your book. One, again, you might have done previously. 
     
So, when we look at the question, we see it's law. We see it's law.  

Now, what is something you might notice about this question  
as you are reading it? What's something you spot? 

Conditional language. Mimi, absolutely right. If.   
Right here. Right here.  

Now, if the test makers are giving you a law question  
with formal logic in it, what is very likely going to be the flaw, everybody? 

It's probably going to be a confusion of necessity versus sufficiency. 

So, if you only had 10 seconds left on this section  
and this question was sitting in front of you,  
what would be a very smart strategic guess? 

Exactly right. Because answer choice A says, treats a sufficient  
condition as a necessary condition.  

That is confusing sufficiency and necessity.  
That's all good. So, the reason I mentioned this, everybody, 
     
is I know we just did some monster questions. This was purposeful.  

Want to make sure you got to see some tough content.  
All right. But also keep in mind that just being aware  
of formal logic's existence on the LSAT and trends associated  
with answer choices, just that can help move the needle  
on your score increasing.   

Now, of course, if you had a standard amount of time,  
you would want to write out the formal logic and see that,  
yes, indeed, they are making a bad contrapositive.  

I'm not as why A is right. But I just want to again prove,  
even if you're not doing those really hard high-end questions  
where you're writing lots of formal logic, just recognizing  
formal logic can be useful.   

Victor, no, absolutely not. That's why I called it a strategic guess.  
You would be making a strategic guess that because there's formal  
logic in the flaw question, thus too, the answer is going to be a confusion.  

I would say if you see a flaw question in the earlier part of the section,  
like the first 12 that is formal logic, very likely that's going to be the answer. 

Notice this was question 11, whereas if this was in the danger zone,  
they'd probably be trying to fool you, which is what Anshika is talking about.  
Yeah.  

If you're in the danger zone and they give you formal logic  
and a flaw question, you're probably trying to throw that wolf over your ass. 
     
So, once you know, try to do a bit more practice with formal logic  
and logical reasoning one way or another, not because you're going to see  
a ton of these questions on test day, just because you could end up  
seeing a couple of them.

The last and final thing we heard was a bit more open-ended inference  
questions in reading comprehension. In fact, we heard this from one student  
happening a little bit more than expected in comparative reading,  
which immediately made me think of a favorite essay of mine, Oil Well Drilling.  

This essay, everybody, is really interesting because it has a couple  
super open-ended questions. I want to close out our session today  

by taking a look at them and talking about how to be strategic  
when dealing with open-ended inference.  

Yeah, these two passages can be brutal.  
The questions associated with it can be brutal,  

but we have such a good tip for you all if you find yourself in this situation.  
So, I know for many of you, this is just going to be a review  
of these two essays. 

Go and give them a read. They're on page 598.  
I will also slowly click through the passages.

RULE: Captions should be split into individual caption groups such that whole phrases, nouns, sentences, and flow of dialogue is interrupted as minimally as possible, while abiding by the 60 character limit.

WHY: This allows the captions to be easily read by the viewer, with logical breaks and enough time on screen.



Split captions…

after terminal punctuation
before conjunctions
before prepositions:  So, if you would like to read them on screen, you totally can. All right, so three minutes, everybody. Take a look through passage A, passage B on page 598 in your lesson book, or again, just read it on screen.

I will gradually be clicking through. Please begin. All right, that is time, James.

I hope you were just reading along on screen then as I was going through them. If you have any continuations with that, definitely talk to Teacher Harry so we can get you in the right spot. So that's the essay.

Let's take a look at the questions that we're here to discuss. So, the two questions I'm about to show you are ones that we should absolutely initially skip. Why should we 100% skip a question like number eight when we first see it? Why should we say no, no, no, no.

One, it's accepted, which can be annoying, but also there's no what? Well, it's true. It is asking about both, but most of the questions we'll ask about both essays. There's no guidance.

I have no idea where to look. There's no clues in this question, and the exact same thing happens with question number 10. Identical in terms of its question stem.

So, this is the test makers being mean. This is the test makers checking to see if you can be a strategic test taker and decide which of them to do. We would say do neither initially, right? Answer all the other questions, and then if time allows, maybe do one of these.

But here's the real tip. Here's the real strategy we want to leave you with. Since these questions are virtually identical, the thing that's going to make them different from each other is the nature of their answer choices.

Now, it just so happens that one of these two questions, one of eight or 10, is much easier than the other, and the way you're going to tell which one is easier is going to be based on which of them seems to have an answer choice that leaps off the page as immediately right or wrong. So, if you took a look at 10, does there seem to be anything that leaps off the page that is an exception that did not happen? That's right. Go and just tell us in the chat your thoughts on this.

I mean, it did not take place. We can use some strong wording. What answer seems to have some very strong words that you did not encounter in your read? Yeah, answer choice B has some really strong words.

What are the really strong words in answer choice B, everybody? We see the language about government requires and requires all. I'm sure in your reading practice, you've been working on focusing on emphasis and opinion as you read. Now, I know I just had you read those essays quickly.

You may not have had time to highlight, but the reason why you keep track of strong language is you can notice when it is happening and when it is not happening. This does not happen. That is why B is right.

So even though 10 looks identical to question 8 in terms of its question stem, if you skim the answers, you potentially have a much easier time of getting it right. Because in contrast, if you look at, oh my apologies, one moment. If you look at question 8, clay is an important constituent.

A little strong with important. At least one type of mud. That's not super strong.

There's been some study. Government regulations allow by is continuously discharged. There are some answers that are stronger than others for sure.

And I will actually say one of those strong answers is the right answer. But notice that none of them are quite as big as all and requires. So, the lesson is this, everybody.

If you have a couple open-ended questions in an RC passage, first skip them. Do not do them. But when you go back to solve them, take a quick glance at their answers.

It's very possible that some of those inference questions will have more obvious right or wrong answers than others. And the one that has more obvious right or wrong answers, probably because of strong language, do that one. And it's perfectly fine to leave a question like this as a skip.

If you would like more practice with open-ended inference questions, I highly suggest you take a look at our challenging RC questions channel lesson. It features an Iguchi passage, which is really good fun. I know we are at time and even a moment after, but let's bring it all together, okay? We took a look at some tough stuff because the LSAT's tough, right? And we know you're here because you want to get a couple more points between now and your test day, right? Based on what we have been hearing, it does seem likely that your test is probably going to have a little bit more, not a ton, a little bit more formal logic in logical reasoning.

And even if you just become a little bit more knowledgeable about formal logic, that could serve you. That can help you get a couple more questions right or even get you to a couple strategic guesses. To help with that, here are some formal logic flashcards for you in the chat in case you need them.

Also, open-ended questions in reading comp, you might get a couple more of those, maybe in comparative reading. If you do, again, skip. Use the answers to try to find one that's easier than the others.

And last but not least, maybe, just maybe, you'll get a parallel principle question. Parallel reasoning questions that happen really early in this section, you should skip, but probably come back to whether they're parallel or not because an earlier question will likely be easier. Now, these are just some tips for test day.

I would highly encourage everybody who can to join us tomorrow night. Tomorrow night, there's going to be a series of prep rally sessions discussing more ways you can get quick points. For instance, Bobby's LR tactician is going to talk about how you can answer logical reasoning questions very quickly.

And there's tons of great sessions like that happening tomorrow night. So, if you want more strategies, tips, and techniques that can raise your score between now and test day, think about checking out that session. Thank you so much for joining us, everybody.

As I've said, I'm not going anywhere. Stick around. If there is anything you want me to go back over and discuss, I'll be more than happy to do so.

But for those of you that are heading out, hope this has given you some insight about what you can expect from your test day. And of course, all the very best on your exam whenever you're taking it. Oh, and of course, I should also say, I hope it was kind of nice here and there to see some stuff you were already familiar with.

Because let's be real, they're not going to make any massive changes on this test. Your test is going to be very, very similar to the practice test you have been doing. They're not making a radical removal of a section change like they did for the August test.

This test is going to be like what you have practiced, just potentially with a couple little tweaks. All right, all. Once again, if there's anything on your mind, we can answer, stick around, tell us, let us know.

Let's dive into those questions. And of course, to those of you saying thank you, you are very welcome. Really appreciate you joining us here tonight.

It was great to hang out. Hope you took away just a couple things you can be thinking about for the future, because just that could raise your score. Any questions? Anything we went over you'd like to discuss? Anything at all in your mind? Anything you're curious about? Any answer choices you'd like me to revisit? If so, please, feel free to ask.

Oh, I see a couple questions in the Q&A. Let's jump to that. Okay, so I think there was a question about the number eight.

So, for number eight, E is actually the right answer. And you might notice that E actually had some pretty strong language as continuously. So continuously is, was it really continuous? And if you go back and research, it's not continuously discharged.

Releases are controlled. So, hope that helped with that one. If there was a different question on that, let me know.

Oh, for open-ended inference questions, the strong language can definitely be helpful, because if you've been tracking strong language in the essay, then you should better be able to recognize if that strong language happened or not. Now, in this set of questions we did, these were accepts. So, when we found strong language that did not match our read, that made it right.

In a regular question, strong language that does not your read would normally make it wrong. Any other questions about that? Cool. Sounds like we're in line on that one.

Anything else that people would like to ask about? Anything else we would like to discuss? All right, all. Once again, truly, truly, this test is going to be what you have practiced. This test is going to be like those law of exams you have been taking.

If you are scoring well in practice, you should have every reason to expect that you are going to score well on test day. So, keep up that work you're doing. Keep studying hard so you can reach that goal score whenever you're testing, whether that's upcoming or soon for the September exam, October, or later.

You've got this. As teacher Harry says, and again, just do a little bit, just a little bit more practice with some of the things we just talked through. Watch, for instance, our formal logic and logic reasoning channel lesson.

Watch our challenging reading comp session so you can see some open-ended inference. Do a little bit of that, and that could help you get a couple more questions right on test day.

Sure, here's the text split into caption groups following the specified rules:

---

So, if you would like to read them on screen,  
you totally can.

All right, so three minutes, everybody.  
Take a look through passage A, passage B  
on page 598 in your lesson book,  
or again, just read it on screen.

I will gradually be clicking through.  
Please begin.

All right, that is time, James.  
I hope you were just reading along on screen  
then as I was going through them.

If you have any continuations with that,  
definitely talk to Teacher Harry  
so we can get you in the right spot.  
So that's the essay.

Let's take a look at the questions  
that we're here to discuss.

So, the two questions I'm about to show you  
are ones that we should absolutely initially skip.

Why should we 100% skip a question like number eight  
when we first see it? Why should we say no, no, no, no.

One, it's accepted, which can be annoying,  
but also there's no what? Well, it's true.

It is asking about both, but most of the questions  
we'll ask about both essays. There's no guidance.

I have no idea where to look. There's no clues in this question,  
and the exact same thing happens with question number 10.

Identical in terms of its question stem.  
So, this is the test makers being mean.

This is the test makers checking to see  
if you can be a strategic test taker  
and decide which of them to do.

We would say do neither initially, right?  
Answer all the other questions,  
and then if time allows, maybe do one of these.

But here's the real tip.  
Here's the real strategy we want to leave you with.

Since these questions are virtually identical,  
the thing that's going to make them different  
from each other is the nature of their answer choices.

Now, it just so happens that one of these two questions,  
one of eight or 10, is much easier than the other,  
and the way you're going to tell which one is easier  
is going to be based on which of them seems to have  
an answer choice that leaps off the page  
as immediately right or wrong.

So, if you took a look at 10,  
does there seem to be anything that leaps off the page  
that is an exception that did not happen?  
That's right.

Go and just tell us in the chat your thoughts on this.  
I mean, it did not take place.

We can use some strong wording.  
What answer seems to have some very  
strong words that you did not encounter in your read?

Yeah, answer choice B has some really strong words.  
What are the really strong words in answer choice B, everybody?

We see the language about government requires  
and requires all.

I'm sure in your reading practice, you've been working  
on focusing on emphasis and opinion as you read.

Now, I know I just had you read those essays quickly.  
You may not have had time to highlight,  
but the reason why you keep track of strong language  
is you can notice when it is happening  
and when it is not happening.

This does not happen.  
That is why B is right.

So even though 10 looks identical to question 8  
in terms of its question stem,  
if you skim the answers, you potentially have  
a much easier time of getting it right.

Because in contrast, if you look at,  
oh my apologies, one moment.  
If you look at question 8, clay is an important constituent.

A little strong with important.  
At least one type of mud. That's not super strong.  
There's been some study.  
Government regulations allow by is continuously discharged.

There are some answers that are stronger than others for sure.  
And I will actually say one of those strong answers  
is the right answer.

But notice that none of them are quite as big as all and requires.  
So, the lesson is this, everybody.

If you have a couple open-ended questions in an RC passage,  
first skip them. Do not do them.

But when you go back to solve them,  
take a quick glance at their answers.

It's very possible that some of those inference questions  
will have more obvious right or wrong answers than others.

And the one that has more obvious right or wrong answers,  
probably because of strong language, do that one.

And it's perfectly fine to leave a question like this as a skip.  
If you would like more practice with open-ended  
inference questions, I highly suggest you take a look  
at our challenging RC questions channel lesson.

It features an Iguchi passage, which is really good fun.  
I know we are at time and even a moment after,  
but let's bring it all together, okay?

We took a look at some tough stuff because the LSAT's tough, right?  
And we know you're here because you want to get a couple more  
points between now and your test day, right?

Based on what we have been hearing, it does seem likely  
that your test is probably going to have a little bit more,  
not a ton, a little bit more formal logic in logical reasoning.

And even if you just become a little bit more knowledgeable  
about formal logic, that could serve you.

That can help you get a couple more questions right  
or even get you to a couple strategic guesses.

To help with that, here are some formal logic flashcards  
for you in the chat in case you need them.

Also, open-ended questions in reading comp,  
you might get a couple more of those,  
maybe in comparative reading. 

If you do, again, skip. Use the answers to try to find  
one that's easier than the others.

And last but not least, maybe, just maybe,  
you'll get a parallel principle question.

Parallel reasoning questions that happen really early  
in this section, you should skip,  
but probably come back to whether they're parallel or not  
because an earlier question will likely be easier.

Now, these are just some tips for test day.  
I would highly encourage everybody who can to join us tomorrow night.  

Tomorrow night, there's going to be a series of prep rally sessions  
discussing more ways you can get quick points.

For instance, Bobby's LR tactician is going to talk about  
how you can answer logical reasoning questions very quickly.

And there's tons of great sessions like that happening tomorrow night.  
So, if you want more strategies, tips, and techniques  
that can raise your score between now and test day,  
think about checking out that session.

Thank you so much for joining us, everybody.  
As I've said, I'm not going anywhere. Stick around.

If there is anything you want me to go back over and discuss,  
I'll be more than happy to do so.

But for those of you that are heading out,  
hope this has given you some insight about  
what you can expect from your test day.

And of course, all the very best on your exam  
whenever you're taking it.

Oh, and of course, I should also say,  
I hope it was kind of nice here and there  
to see some stuff you were already familiar with.

Because let's be real, they're not going to make any  
massive changes on this test.

Your test is going to be very, very similar to the practice test  
you have been doing.

They're not making a radical removal of a section change  
like they did for the August test.

This test is going to be like what you have practiced,  
just potentially with a couple little tweaks.

All right, all. Once again, if there's anything on your mind,  
we can answer, stick around, tell us, let us know.

Let's dive into those questions. And of course,  
to those of you saying thank you, you are very welcome.

Really appreciate you joining us here tonight.  
It was great to hang out.

Hope you took away just a couple things you can be thinking about  
for the future, because just that could raise your score.

Any questions? Anything we went over you'd like to discuss?  
Anything at all in your mind? Anything you're curious about?  
Any answer choices you'd like me to revisit?  
If so, please, feel free to ask.

Oh, I see a couple questions in the Q&A. Let's jump to that.  
Okay, so I think there was a question about the number eight.

So, for number eight, E is actually the right answer.  
And you might notice that E actually had  
some pretty strong language as continuously.

So continuously is, was it really continuous?  
And if you go back and research, it's not continuously discharged.

Releases are controlled.  
So, hope that helped with that one.  
If there was a different question on that, let me know.

Oh, for open-ended inference questions,  
the strong language can definitely be helpful,  
because if you've been tracking strong language in the essay,  
then you should better be able to recognize  
if that strong language happened or not.

Now, in this set of questions we did, these were accepts.  
So, when we found strong language that did not match our read,  
that made it right.

In a regular question, strong language that does not your read  
would normally make it wrong. Any other questions about that?

Cool. Sounds like we're in line on that one.  
Anything else that people would like to ask about?

Anything else we would like to discuss?  
All right, all. Once again, truly, truly,  

this test is going to be what you have practiced.  
This test is going to be like those law of exams you have been taking.

If you are scoring well in practice, you should have every reason  
to expect that you are going to score well on test day.  
So, keep up that work you're doing.  

Keep studying hard so you can reach that goal score  
whenever you're testing, whether that's upcoming or soon  
for the September exam, October, or later.

You've got this. As teacher Harry says, and again,  
just do a little bit, just a little bit more practice  
with some of the things we just talked through.

Watch, for instance, our formal logic and logic reasoning channel lesson.  
Watch our challenging reading comp session  
so you can see some open-ended inference.  

Do a little bit of that, and that could help you  
get a couple more questions right on test day.

Please punctuate and don't change the format and verbitm: - So coffee's made up of two very different things.
Beans and water. And all you need to do, you know,
if you were to combine beans into water, it's not coffee,
you know, it's just beans.
Sharing the same space with water.
And it's not a very appetizing drink at all. No.
And so the only way to make coffee is you have
to grind at the beans.
The water has to be boiled,
and then you get wonderful coffee
and you're highly caffeinated and all that.
So it's all and happy and you're happy.
So both things have to have
to change fundamentally in order for them to be one.
Yeah. And I, and I don't think we
signed up for that in marriage.
We just didn't think about that.
We didn't think that in, in order for us
to become a we Me has to change.
- You're listening to the Wisdom for Wealth
for Live podcast, brought to you by Blue Trust.
This episode is part one of a four-part series
Seasons of Money and Marriage.
The first season. Newly marrieds on this panel will have two
married couples, Brian and Jen Goins and Ed
and Amy Budzinski, hosted
by Blue Trusts Senior Financial Advisor, Marshall Potter.
If you're single and wanted to be married or engaged
or newly married, this episode is for you.
- Today we're excited to have two experts in marriage
who have a lot of background with marriage speaking
and counseling and practical life experience.
Yes. Having processed it themselves.
And so we're excited to introduce Ed and Amy Dubinski
and also Brian and Jen Goins welcome.
- Have you to be here.⁣- And I'd love for the couples just
to get to know you a little bit better.
So tell me a little bit about your work in marriage,
how long you've been married, a
little bit about your family.
- Yeah. So we've been married for 24 4 years.
Ooh. Yes. And we have, we have four kids. Our oldest is 23.
We've got a daughter that's gonna be 21 next week.
And then we have a 18-year-old and a 13-year-old. So
- All the stages.
- Yes, we have all the stages right now. Yes.
- Yeah. And we work
with a sports ministry called Athletes In Action.
So we work with college
and professional athletes doing ministry
with them all over the country.
- Yeah. And then we've been working with Family Life
with their weekend to remember marriage ministry
for around 20
- Years.
- 20 years.⁣- Yeah. Wow.
- Yeah.⁣- Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. Thank you.
- Yeah.⁣- Brian and Jen.
- Well, we're Brian and Jen Goins. Yes.
And we have three awesome kids.
We have a 24, 21 and a 16-year-old.
And then we have been married for 27 years.
I didn't know we beat you guys. Yeah.
Married longer than you guys.
- Amazing. Yeah. But they've been on the speaker team at
Family Life for a little bit longer than
- Us. Right, right.
- So⁣- We also ministered to couples
through Family Life's Weekend to remember
and speak at marriage conferences around the, the country.
And we've been doing that for about 17 years.
And then we, I also work at my local in Melbourne, Florida.
- Okay.⁣- And Brian works at Family Life full time.
- Yeah.⁣- So that's kind of our,
our vocation and where we work.
- Love it. Yes. Sounds good.
So obviously living
and breathing this stuff, which is great.
So if you can remember back newly married, right? Yes.
You're getting married
and maybe you go on,
you have the wedding, go on the honeymoon.
You come home and you're having your first discussion about
something and you find out, hey,
we don't exactly agree on this.
So talk about the process of finding unity, exploring Unity.
Unity. How did you process those things?
Was it that you were, were you processing some
of those in advance or was it just as you came into marriage
and you were discovering that, what was kind
of the process you found?
And I say that just because I think others,
John Maxwell talks about like a lot
of life is making the right decisions
and then maintaining those.
But we know that, you know, up to 40%
of couples end up getting divorced because of money alone.
And there's lots of other reasons.
I feel like the exploration is
what are those right decisions
and how do we come to that unity together?
So tell me about that process
and what that kind of looked like at the beginning for you.
Maybe Brian and Jen start us off.
- Yeah, yeah, we can. For⁣- Sure.
- I was just trying to think back to, you know, for us,
we had, we, we thought we were so similar.
We thought everything was gonna be super easy.
'cause we had, you know, similar backgrounds,
similar college, similar faith walk.
Both were older kids, you know, older.
We had, we both were the eldest and we had younger siblings.
And so we just thought,
this is both the same, born of the same year.
It's like, this is gonna be super easy.
And then I find out that she likes to celebrate.
Her family celebrates Christmas on Christmas Eve
where they open up all their presents
and they had certain meals that they did
that weren't exactly like mine.
And, and Jen loves to go to our church
where there's a little bit more emotion shows.
So all of a sudden, like you're talking about church
and talking about Christmas, like two big traditions
that are a big part of what you think
family's gonna look like.
Absolutely. And so that was something I know that we all
of a sudden right away going,
what are we gonna do this Christmas?
And I don't know, you know, for us, what,
what do you think really has helped us move towards,
I would say, solving some of those things?
- Right. I think after having a lot of disagreements, a lot
of frustration, broken expectations, we've come
to this idea that as we come to those things
and those big decisions that you're gonna make,
that do affect your life.
Yeah. And as you celebrate holidays, as you deal with money,
as you think about how you're going to raise kids
or all the things that you think about when you're a
newlywed, we have learned to, we kind of say a couple C's.
And that is that we've learned to
communicate on those issues.
And then we've learned to compromise on those issues
where we come together and we're like, let's talk about it.
- Yeah.⁣- We have to sit down
and make a time to really talk about it.
And we really share our hearts and we're good listeners.
So we really listen and honor each other in those things.
But then we say, well, where can we make some compromises?
How can we come up with our way of doing it love?
And what's gonna be a standard in our family on
those, on those things. That's great.
- One of the things I wish somebody had told us when we were
new Ed, in fact, our, our daughter who's just got engaged
and our son just got engaged, by the way.
So they better listen to this podcast. Wow.
- Yes.⁣- They both just got engaged and, and our daughter
and future son-in-Law, were talking about
how they've got a code word now
for when something's more important to the other person.
So like, if they were to go, this is, this is really,
really important to me.
You say this word, you know,
and I'm not gonna divulge their word that's for them.
That's, but I've heard other people say, on a scale of one
to 10, how much do you value this thing?
So on a scale of one to 10,
how much do you value opening Christmas presents on
Christmas night or Christmas Eve,
you know, versus Christmas day.
And if you're both a nine, well then you've gotta, you know,
- Compromise. Yeah.
- You've gotta compromise. You gotta figure out.
But if one is a eight and one is a two, oh, okay.
Well maybe I'll sacrifice
because it's really important for you.
- Right, right. I love that.
- Well, and before you even get to that,
I was just thinking, I love that to communicate
to compromise.
Right. But there's such a jolt
that happens when you first realize what you didn't realize.
Yeah. Which is that we, we really do see this differently.
So Amy and I met in Chicago across several years of time.
We were both in school,
but I'm from Cleveland, she's from Minneapolis originally.
And Clevelanders in Minneapolis,
people see the world very differently.
They just, they have different histories. Yeah.
They, they, they just have a different mentality.
So I think when we first started
to bump into those differences, it's that, that feeling of,
oh, I don't like that.
I don't like that. That she sees the world so differently.
And how did I miss this?
Because I've loved everything about her up to the,
up to this point.
Hmm. And now, yeah,
we're gonna open up gifts the night before.
Like what? I can't live with that
for the rest of my life. Who does that?
- Yeah.⁣- Who would do that?
I cannot live with that for the rest of my life. Yeah.
And you start to stack those up with each other.
And Jen mentioned expectations
and how do you prepare for expectations ahead of time?
People can tell you, you can read books,
you can get premarital counseling, which is super helpful.
But until you feel that feeling of, I don't like that.
And if I'm honest, I'm not sure if I like you right now,
is a really, that's a jolting thing.
- It's not what you're expecting, you said I do.
- No. So to be able then even to say, well, that
that's actually normal.
- Yeah.⁣- To run into that, no, let's learn to communicate.
And in the midst of our communication, this is
what compromise looks like.
Like we signed up to become one, which means I'm gonna have
to let go of some of what has been my normal forever
and you're gonna have to let go of some of your normal
and we're gonna make a new
normal together. Yeah. That's good.
- But I would even say, I think some of the tensions
that we first started to encounter was just
how we communicated with each other.
Okay. So it wouldn't even necessarily be an argument.
Or maybe it was,
but started to realize, gosh,
we communicate really differently.
So I need time to think, to process
to maybe step away from a situation.
- Why do you need time to think? I've
already thought it all out.
Why can't we just talk about it right
now? Yes. What are you thinking
- About?
Yes. Come on. And the excitement and the energy
and the volume grows and I start to shrink back even more.
'cause I think you're getting too big right now.
- Yeah.⁣- And all of a sudden now we're in an argument
because we are not communicating well.
So I think even to back it up,
we found ourselves very different
and how we were just talking to each other.
Yeah. And we had to step back and figure out.
- And I think one thing with communication, you're right.
It's easy to throw out. Just communicate
and compromise, you know?
Yeah. Yeah. So there's you, you kinda have
to back that up a little bit.
And one thing that we've been kind
of saying about communication lately that I really like,
and I feel like it resonates with people
and it resonates with me Okay.
Is that communication is a skill that can be learned.
- Yes.⁣- So you're not just born a great communicator
and you can't look at other marriages
and say, well, they know how to communicate.
You can learn to communicate. Yeah.
And it's a skill that we always need to be pressing into
and learning more about.
On the way here on the airplane,
I was reading a book about communication
and I'm thinking to myself, I teach on communication
and I'm learning something from this book.
And I know honestly the hard part is, is
that I was coming here to communicate.
So I was, it was something that I was preparing for.
Usually when you're on an airplane, you're watching Netflix
or you're reading your own book.
Yeah. And so it takes some encouragement of like, okay guys,
if we wanna learn this, it's gonna take a little work.
Yeah. And you're not just gonna magically
- Yeah.
- Be good at something.⁣- Yes. Right.
- You're not gonna magically whatever skill that you have,
you have to work at it a little bit.
And so learning, okay, if we're bad communicators,
that means the good news is that you can learn
- It. Yeah.
- But the hard news is like, you're gonna have
to make some steps of learning how to communicate
and like, this is not a podcast on communication.
Maybe we can talk about some general skills,
but, and there's a million of 'em.
Right. There's so many nuances.
Like I said, you can be a lifelong learner on communication.
- Yeah. Yeah.⁣- But start taking some steps of learning how
to communicate, how to listen well, how
to voice your opinion.
You know, things like that, that a we
to remember is a good place to start.
But there's, you know, so many re resources to do that.
- Well, and Jen, what I'm hearing you say too built into
that is you have to unlearn
before you can relearn to do the, the right way.
Sometimes we have to back up and unlearn bad habits.
Things maybe we didn't even realize were bad habits
until we started to bump into someone for whom they,
this doesn't work.
- Yeah.⁣- Right. And Brian, I hear you say this all the
time, sometimes it's just changing our posture.
And so this all goes back to when you, when you start
to run into difficulties
and realize things are different,
when I realize things are different, I want Amy
to get my way.
Yeah. I want her to understand me.
- Yeah.⁣- And maybe one of the first unlearning things is
instead of coming with that attitude, it's to say,
tell me more about that.
Right. We talk about it all the time at conferences
and even between us, let me slow down,
tell me more about why you feel the way you feel.
And then, and then really let that play itself out.
Ask questions, try to understand,
and then I'll get my turn again when we're both here in
good, good faith posture towards one another.
And then you can find understanding with each other. Yeah.
- So I want to draw out a little bit further.
'cause I think great, I love the idea
of developing communication skills and the commitment,
but I could also see myself being narcissistic in
that I want to learn the communication skills
so I can get more of what I want.
- True.⁣- So talk about your faith
and the underpinnings of that
and maybe the experience you had with the Lord
as you're walking through this.
How's Lord speaking to you about your attitude towards your
spouse and your heart, towards your spouse?
- Well, yeah, I, and Marshall, I think that's,
that's really the underlying principle of even
how you're approaching communication.
'cause Yeah. If you're just learning to,
how do I communicate so that she can come, come to my way?
Yeah. My way of thinking then that totally misses
what the Bible talks about, which is the point
of marriage is that I actually learned
to love somebody else like God loves me.
- Yes.⁣- And how does God loves me?
He is always seeking to put my interests first. Yes.
And so, you know, Philippians two talks about don't,
don't merely look out for your own interests,
but have the mind of Christ look
out for the interest of another.
Right. Look out. Absolutely.
Look, how do I humble myself to go?
It's more important in communication for me to understand
what Jen's trying to communicate to me than what I'm trying
to make her hear from me.
And I think that's the hard, I mean for me as the new lead,
it's like, even as I was thinking about you guys talking
about when you feel that, that moment where it's like,
I don't know that I like you right now, I married you
and I don't think I like you.
And you can, you can do one of two things with that emotion.
You can keep fighting for trying to change the person. Yeah.
Or you can start to call a time out
and say, okay, what do, what needs to change in me right now
so that I can actually hear her better?
And I don't think, I know, I didn't have
that mentality the first five years into marriage at all.
It was much more about I just want you
to appreciate what I like me.
Yeah, yeah. And me, because that's why I got married.
And that really uncovers the deeper thing about marriage is
that we got married really
because I wanted someone to love me
- Good⁣- As I am.
And I don't want to change it.
- Yeah.⁣- And if you go into marriage going,
how does God want to change me in this relationship?
It's a much different posture.
- Absolutely. Well, and we talk about this at the weekends
all the time where we can be in a conflict
or even a discussion.
And if I just win all of the time
- Yeah.
- One of us is losing. Right.
And so there's this quote that says, you know,
you can win every battle and still lose the war.
And it's like, am I seen Ed
as my teammate, as my best friend?
And how do I want both of us to win versus just me winning?
Because if just I win in these moments
and I just get what I want
and what I think is best,
I'm actually missing out on the relationship
and the fruit of what can come if we both come
to it together.
Both sacrificing and both winning in the end.
- Yeah.⁣- So,
- Well, and God brought us out of our singleness, which we,
we could have stayed single and
- Yeah.
- And been fully fulfilled and fulfilled God's purposes.
But for whatever reason, he brought us out of singleness
to become one with each other.
Which means that we, we really have signed up
to become something different together than we would've been
if we had stayed apart.
- Yeah.⁣- Right. Like that's what we're signing up for.
Which again, I don't know that we really think about
what the pain of that's gonna be ahead of time
or what that's actually gonna cost
and I'm gonna have to be transformed and changed.
- Yeah.⁣- But underneath that is really a, like,
it's like our theology.
We don't usually think this way,
but our theology is getting confronted all the time.
Very true. What do you really believe about God in
- This? Yeah. Yeah.
- Do you believe that God brought you together? Yeah.
Like he has an intention
and a purpose for you two to meet each other
and to say yes to each other.
And if again, that's to deal with that, honestly,
if we say no to that in our heart of hearts,
then we're gonna have all kinds of
- Conflict.
- Because these two very different people are trying
to inhabit the same space with all of our selfishness,
all of our expectations.
Like Jen said, all of our inability to communicate.
And I'm just gonna keep looking out for me.
And, and you Mar Marshall, you said it.
That's why I, I think it's a large reason why
so many people just quit on it.
- Yeah.⁣- Because I don't like that feeling.
- Yeah. Yeah.⁣- But if we, if we give into the, the fact
that God is behind this and he's trying to do something new
- Yes.
- I think it helps. Yeah.⁣- Absolutely. It's,
- It doesn't make it easier, but it helps Absolutely.
Right. To say, okay, then let's keep after this
- Together. Yeah.
- I love⁣- That. So we've talked about, I mean the heart,
clearly, the ongoing learning.
Talk about being a student of your spouse as well,
like studying them and getting to know them.
What, what has that been like?
Are there things you've explicitly done, I dunno,
love languages, other types of things to get
to know each other better.
And, and tell me maybe something you realized about your
spouse, like, oh wow, that's cool.
And you kind of leaned into that and then,
- Hmm.
I'm trying to think of one off the top of my head.
- That's something that's really
- Cool about me.
Yes. You really learn. Yeah.
- But⁣- Man,
- That's⁣- Awesome.
When you care about something, you, you slow down
and pay close attention to it.
- Yeah.⁣- I got, we moved out onto a property
that has three acres and,
and we bought this Toro zero turn mower years ago.
Beautiful model.
And when I first got it, I'd never had a mower
like that before.
And I started to study it.
I wanted to understand all the different parts of it
and everything that it did
and how it worked and how it didn't work.
And then, you know, how it worked on our terrain
and what I could go over and not go over, you know.
And there really is this whole process of just slowing down,
pay attention
and learn how this thing really works in,
its in its space, you know?
And really, again, it sounds so somewhat crass to try
to make that leap, but it really is the same
thing with a spouse.
- Look at your wife like a mower.
- Yes. Look at your wife. That's the takeaway.
That's like a high end zero turn mower on my end.
You're you're on high end. It's your term.
But I, I don't know her. I think I do. Yeah.
But I really don't know her. Yeah.
'cause we just, we just started with each other, right.
We just got married, we just started
to live in the same space.
And, and so there's a humility, I think to that to say,
I don't really know how this model operates
and I, I need to understand, you know,
how she operates even in this space
and living in this place that we live in
and in this season of life that we're in.
'cause it changes. Yeah.
When you're both doing that for each other.
Very cool things happen.
- It really does. I love, I mean, it's like the whole idea
of, of being a dete detective of your spouse.
You know, how do I and someone, what's called love focus.
Like when I'm, like you said,
when I love something, I focus on it.
I see every asset or I see every aspect of that thing.
And I know for me, I wish I had asked more questions about
Jen early, you know, that was, I,
I think we make more assumptions versus really
being curious.
That's, you know, what, what would make
this Saturday win for you?
That was one of our big disagreements was like Saturdays we
didn't realize why we were so mad at each other
on Saturday mornings.
- Yes.⁣- And I thought I had a perfect perfectly planned
out thing for Saturday.
You know, I'd go out, I get to the garage, I'd see
what needs to be fitting there,
I'd go out in the yard a little bit,
and then it was time for lunch and a nap
and watching some college football.
And suddenly Jen's like angry angrily vacuuming around me,
you know, and I'm like, and I'm going,
what, what's going on?
I had a, I had a great Saturday
- And that's because at my home, my family
of origin on Saturday was another work day.
Like San Sunday was the rest day.
My dad's a farmer, you know, an old farmer.
So six days a week you work and then you get to rest.
- Yes.⁣- And so on Sunday you get up
and maybe you sleep in a tiny bit, but not much.
And then you start working and you take care of your home
and you take care of your yard
and it's another pretty much another work day.
And so when he's miserable, it's miserable. Yes.
The way to live. And so that expectation of,
we just had different expectations coming into a Saturday.
And so after, I don't know, a couple years,
we realized on Saturday morning, we need to get up
and we need to each say what are our
expectations for the day?
What do we wanna accomplish today?
How do we wanna rest if we wanna rest today?
And just kind of having those expectations really helped
and knowing what we both value.
- Yeah. What would be a win for you? What and what, why?
And like in the moment of conflict, what, instead
of keep arguing for your thing, like back up,
call a time out and go, why is this frustrating you so much?
Like just asking the why questions of what,
what would make this a win for you this date night?
Would, what would make it a win for you?
I think that's trying to unpack like what is my,
what are the love languages of my spouse?
Like, you know, Gary Chapman about,
and I, I just wish I had taken more time
to learn this refuse of, of marriage versus just expect
what I want outta marriage. Love
- It.
So Brian and I, we lived in Charlotte, North Carolina
for 12 years and his family's from North Carolina.
And so big Tarheel fans, college,
college basketball, Tarheel fans.
And so our kids grew up in North Carolina also
with their grandparents being so big Tarheel fans.
And Brantley is engaged to this young man now.
And about a month ago she has on
like a Villanova hat.
Wow. And we're like, like, excuse me.
- Yeah.⁣- What's going on here?
And she also has like this giant sweatshirt.
We are cowboy fans.
I won't explain that, but, and we're not Panther fans,
but cowboy fans, she's lying to him.
I know's lying to. And so,
but here's the things she put on his jersey.
She is like, I wanna be on your team.
I wanna be on your team now. Yeah.
Now the secret to that is once
you get married, that's great.
When you're like dating
and you like the smell of the sweatshirt and you, you know,
but then after you get married,
the secret is is like we still wanna be on the same team.
- Yeah. Yeah.⁣- We still wanna try to find out
what the other person likes and,
and join them in that we can end up really separating and,
and end up after a while of,
of separating not just on teams, but on everything.
And then when the kids are gone
and you're like, we don't even really know each other
'cause we haven't built that.
We're doing things together. We're on the same team.
You know, maybe not literally,
but, you know, we've done things together, we've built it
and it's so much, it's so easy
after you get married for a while to kind
of start going into your own corners.
Yeah. And cheering for your own teams
and doing for your own, you know,
girls night out all the time or trips with other people
or, you know, just not building up those date nights
or just having the same being on the same page.
- Yeah. Jen.⁣- So,
- And you, I think, you know,
you're, you're getting somewhere.
At least I feel this inside myself when, when I,
I see those differences.
'cause I'm, I've studied, I've studied Amy, so I'm,
I'm starting to get why she's different
where it's coming from.
But I think the next step is to appreciate it. Mm.
And to, for me to appreciate it means, so
for example, did not know
that Amy was not gonna make any lists once we got married.
That she just was, you know, not gonna keep track
of things in the same way I was.
I've got lists, Amy likes to say,
I've got lists about my list
where I'm saying I'm gonna make this list
as soon as I get to this part of
- No, you, you really do have that.
- Yeah, I do. I have problems. I have problems.
But that's how I just keep track of life. Yeah.
I just keep writing things down.
I'm organizing 'em 'cause I don't wanna lose 'em.
And, and Amy doesn't do that.
So we've had conflict over that
because I feel like she's not paying attention
to the details of our life
and she feels like I'm smothering her with, you know,
details of our life.
Yeah. Right. And so there's just this conflict
of two different ways of doing it.
What I've grown to appreciate though, as we've communicated,
as we've compromised about what that's gonna look like,
as I've stopped trying to change her, I realize that
that's just part of a bigger package that is a fun person
- Yeah.
- Who is spontaneous
and knows how to just make the day fun in ways
we didn't plan on.
Mm. Like that has been part of her personality.
It's one of the things that everybody loves about.
It's why people wanna hang out with her and not me,
but it's like, no, wait a minute.
Like I don't wanna, I don't wanna change that part of
who she is.
Yeah. Like that. Okay. That may be a downside for me
because of how I'm wired,
but it's part of this larger package that I need in my
- Life. Yeah. So,
- You know, you start seeing those things like, I need this.
I never would've chosen it if I had known this ahead
of time, but it's actually what I need.
- Yeah.⁣- To change and become something different
and it becomes a blessing.
- Yeah.⁣- That's when I think, you know,
you're getting somewhere with each other.
- I love the gratitude thing.
And I think you're also saying you're trusting
God's purposes.
Isn't that Yeah. It's a theological
statement again, isn't it?
- Yeah,⁣- Absolutely. So I love it.
I'm hearing good communication, discovery.
I love the Saturday morning idea.
I totally relate to that same Yeah.
- We had some doozies on Saturday morning, same thing.
And all you gotta do is just ask a question like,
what would be a win for you that tomorrow I don't do
that on Friday night or Saturday
morning? What would be a win for you?
- I'm not sure. I wanted to know the answer
to that though for a long time.
The wind was, you did everything
- I wanted to do. Leave me
- Alone on⁣- Saturday.
That's just choose one. Right.
- Good⁣- Compromise one.
And let you have to have let you have to let go. Yes.
Of the, you mentioned the coffee illustration
that we have used before.
- Yes.⁣- And I don't know if, if this is being appropriate
time, Brian, why don't you give
that illustration? Oh yeah. I, I do love it.
- Well just, yeah, just real quickly.
It's like, we love coffee. So coffee's made
up of two very different things.
Beans and water and all you need to do, you know,
if you were to combine beans into water, it's not coffee,
you know, it's just beans.
Sharing the same space with water
and it's not a very appetizing drink at all.
- No.⁣- And so the only way to make coffee is you have
to grind up the beans.
The water has to be boiled and then you get wonderful coffee
and you're highly caffeinated and all that.
So it's all and happy and you're happy.
So both things have to have
to change fundamentally in order for them to be one.
And I, and I don't think we signed up for that in marriage.
We just didn't think about that.
We didn't think that in order for us
to become a we me has to change.
I have to change.
- That's good.⁣- It's a, yeah. There you go.
So let's, let's. And I think, I think our culture,
we're living in a culture where, I mean,
our kids are getting married in a day
where I think the mentality is you get married so
that somebody else makes you better.
- Yeah.⁣- You know, so somebody else is adding
to your agenda and, and you don't really have to change you.
They just will hopefully come
- Alongside you.
The soulmate idea means you're gonna come and fulfill me.
You're gonna complete something that was missing in me,
which is very different than I'm going
to agape you, which we talked about.
Right. You say, the Bible talks about love.
I'm gonna do what's best
for you in spite of what it costs me.
- I'm gonna die to my things inside of me. That's
- Really different.
- Yeah.⁣- Yeah. And I don't know, I mean,
how long do you think it needs to take
before you get in touch with that?
You know, it's like nobody signs up for that.
I, I think pretty comprehensively you can say that just
'cause we don't know what that is.
Right. But I don't think it has to necessarily take years
and years and years to get there.
Right. It's, it's kind of up to us like we can avoid a lot
of misery by making
that adjustment quicker rather than later.
- Yeah.⁣- You know, how am I, how am I going to stop trying
to demand that I get what I want?
And you to become something for me
and me start to think about how can I become something
for you, which sounds miserable on the surface,
but when both people are doing that,
it's really fun. Right. And
- Enjoyable.
Well, it's the paradox of what scripture says. Right.
Like if you, if you give, you know, you'll your life. Yeah.
If you give up your life, you'll gain your life.
If you lose your life, you'll find it.
If you give, it'll be given back to you.
I mean, just, just over and over.
And Paul even says this in one Corinthians seven
where he talks about marriage
and he, you know, he has a very real
realistic view of marriage.
He's like you, when you get married,
your heart actually gets divided
because you're not just thinking about you anymore.
You're also thinking about how to please the Lord.
I'm also thinking about how to please my spouse.
I'm also thinking about how to please my kids.
And so if we would give that message to newlyweds of,
actually your heart's gonna be divided when you get married
multiple times,
but actually that's when you actually
experience a full heart.
You know, because it has
to get divided in order for it
to grow. It's so interesting.
- Yeah. So good.
So with that spirit in mind, knowing what Christ has done
for us, and we're doing that for our spouse, talk about some
of the rhythms that you've laid down
or almost seeds that you regularly plow into the
soil towards one another.
What are good habits
or rhythms you've developed
that you feel like strengthen your relationship?
And that's, that's a good question.
- Yeah. I mean, we talk about this a lot
and there's been seasons where we've done it really well.
And then there's seasons,
which when I say seasons could be two years, three years,
but spending time together
and it's this intentional going out or
after the kids go to bed
and say, we're putting away all distractions.
So the season that we're in kind
of right now is we do a lot of shoulder
to shoulder activities together.
So speaking at a marriage conference,
watching a kids' sporting event, we're,
we're here, we're together.
But we don't get much face-to-face Time, time
where all those distractions are kind of put to the side.
Yeah. The kids are, you know, we're,
we're not watching a kid's event
and just saying, how are you really doing today?
Tell me about what's going on at work.
And just this intense eye to eye
and not so much shoulder
to shoulder watching a movie together.
- Yeah.⁣- We, we've gotten more of that, but yeah.
- Yeah. So when you're newly married
in the first years Yeah.
You are doing more of that. Yep.
There, there may be aren't again, everybody's different.
Everybody's getting married at different ages
with different responsibilities.
But it's, it's, it still is probably,
you're gonna be doing more of this
and to catch yourself when you start
to separate from each other again, the sooner
that you can catch while we're really not getting good face
to face time anymore.
Like, don't let that turn into a house fire
before you, you know, as soon as it starts
to smoke a little bit.
Yeah. And one of the other feels like we're we,
we really are not spending time with each other.
We don't know each other well. We need to stop and
- Yeah.
- And turn towards each
other. Yeah. Be intentional about it.
- I was just gonna jump in real quick,
which feels totally unromantic.
- Right.⁣- To a newlywed
where you spent the last few years
spontaneously getting together,
- Chasing each other.
- Yeah. Like showing up in the morning with a cup
of coffee and there you go. And
- A giant⁣- Sweat.
You didn't have to tell each other.
I I can't wait to when it's like,
when are we getting to see each other again?
Yeah. And then you get married
and it's like, we got life, we got
bills to pay, we've got kids.
If you're a blended family coming in together Yeah.
It's like all of a sudden you're adding a, a whole nother
lay of layer of stress.
And so to tell a couple, a young couple establish Right.
Rhythms now that become non-negotiables. It sounds crazy.
It's almost like when you guys give 'em
investment principles.
If you would just start putting the $25 a month
or $50 a month
- Yep.
- Every month, you almost don't think about it anymore.
- Right.⁣- And so what are those things that you don't have
to think about anymore, you know, on a regular basis?
Like we, you know, for Jen and I,
I don't know when we develop this,
but just the, we, we like to say,
calendar your companionship.
You know, one in seven, one in 30, one in 365, you know,
once a week having that just check in
and maybe it is at a soccer, you know,
you're going into a soccer game or, or you're going out.
But I'm gonna check in and just see
what are the burdens you're you're facing right now?
Where could I, you know, where could I help you?
We ask questions of each other.
One in 30, have a have a fun date night.
You know, I, we could never maintain the a weekly date.
Now we heard that from marriage
conferences, some people that do.
That's great. But it was like, that just seems like another,
another thing to do.
And it costs money and all that kinda stuff.
- We would've seasons, we do it really well for a year. Just
- I was just thinking⁣- About, and then there'd be a year
where we're like, okay, then we'd do it
again. Well, for a year
- As far as actually going out to dinner,
- Something in the night,⁣- Drop the kids at Ana right.
Wednesday night to take care of your
- Kids. You got
- 90 minutes. Okay, what do you wanna
- Talk about?
And then one in 365, just getting away once a year
to do a marriage conference or a
vacation or something like that.
We've tried to do that.
We haven't done it perfectly like you guys.
But I think that if you, if you kind of get into
where it doesn't feel like this is work anymore,
then you'll feel you'll reap the
benefits. Much like an investment.
- Right. Right. And I think something you said, you know,
that going back to that shoulder to shoulder versus eye
to eye, I'm presuming like the goal is when you're doing the
one in seven, it is the true eye to eye.
It's not a business meeting, you know, it's,
you're really trying to just talk about you as a couple.
- Yes.⁣- Well, Ed's got a list and
- He goes⁣- Through his list.
A list. Yes.
- Let's⁣- Get it
- Out. Yeah.
- I think that's something that changed significantly is
when you started to do
what your friend Jason was doing when his wife would call.
I think that was a good healthy
- Yeah.
I've been telling this story for years.
'cause, and this was in the first few years that I would go
to lunch with this guy named Jason.
And consistently the only time he would answer his
phone is if his wife called.
Okay. So that would be the interruption.
And she always seemed to call during lunch when we were out
because that that's, she knew he was at lunch.
Yeah. And Jason would listen and,
and he wouldn't hardly say a word to her.
It was, so there'd just be these kind of long pauses,
you know, as I'm sitting there across the table
waiting, when is he gonna be done?
And at the end of the call, he would always say,
how can I help you babe?
Like consistently Wow.
That that was a pattern for him to say,
how can I help you babe?
And at one point I finally asked him like, Jason,
why do you ask, why do you always end your call that way?
And he's like, because I don't know
what she's gonna say. You
- Know⁣- What she like. Well, that's brilliant.
- Yeah.⁣- And I realized that I never just stop
and ask Amy, how can I help you babe?
Wow. You know, I've, I've tried to be present.
I'm, I'm trying not to be a bad husband,
but I've never actually just intentionally said,
how can I help you?
That's so even in these spaces where again,
what are we doing in our time together just to even to cut
to the chase to say, what do you need from me?
How can I, somebody told me this summer at a camp
that he starts every day by saying,
how can I lighten your load today?
Yeah. Is there anything I can do
that's gonna lighten your load?
And maybe she says something
that he's actually not able to do.
- Right.⁣- Yeah. It's, it's not like he's, you know,
it's a blank check, but I'm at least letting you write
whatever you want on the board.
And I I will try to make that happen. Yeah. You know? Yeah.
That's just a different way of doing life together.
- And it works. Conversely too, I can come to Ed,
I think I just asked you the other day,
did when you were struggling through an issue, I just kind
of said, how can I best support you during this time?
What can I do for you today? Absolutely.
- And my first answer was, I don't know.
- It was, yeah.⁣- But at least I know you're thinking
and now I will think about how,
how can you be my partner in this?
- Yeah. Yeah.⁣- She's on your team.
- Jen, Jen, Jen has done that.
Just seasons of life where you've said,
how can I serve you today?
And it is just, it's radical.
It, you know, you think that's not a, you think that
that's not a really a big deal, but it's like, what?
Just, I wake up every morning with an insecurity, you know,
does anybody notice me?
Will I matter today?
Am I strong enough to make it through whatever I got on my
plate at first there somebody to go,
is there any way I can serve you today?
Like just that Lord help you today. Yeah. Like
- What?
- Oh, it's good to know that somebody,
one person in the world is thinking about me.
- We're a⁣- Team. Yeah.
I think one thing that, kind
of switching gears a little bit is that some
of the habits we were talking about habits.
Yes. And so we could probably sit up here
and say, pray together, go to church together,
tithe together, be generous together.
And those are all great things. Yeah.
And I would say definitely, you know, if you can,
but there's gonna be couples out there who are gonna say,
I wanna do that, but my spouse doesn't wanna that.
Yes. Yes. And so I know for Brian
and I, one of the things, I mean, Brian
and I both like, like we said,
we both came from Christian families.
We went to a Christian college.
We, we wanted to be in ministry.
And I just thought we would
naturally pray together all the time.
That was one of the habits that I wanted in our marriage.
And for some reason, Brian never pursued that.
We, it's not like we fought all the
time or anything like that.
We had our disagreements,
but it's just one of the things that we didn't do.
And I, that was a longing of my heart.
And I really didn't wanna be the one
to always be like, let's pray together.
I really wanted him to kind of lead out on that.
And so I just started praying
and asking, God, would you make us a couple
that prays together?
And honestly, year after year, it never really happened.
We would pray before meals
or we would pray like maybe every once in a while if we got
in the car and going on a trip or something like that.
But I know both of us didn't really have that in our family.
And so it wasn't modeled for us. Totally.
But after about 20 years of praying for this,
and I don't mean to throw him under the bus
- Break.
- I mean, it's good one we talked about. We've talked about
this.
- It's a good one. Yeah.⁣- It's a big one.
And I, and it's not that I didn't know,
- Nor is it that you're not praying in your own life.
Right. It's just different to
try to pay with it's, there was,
- There was, there was an intimidation factor.
And again, if this is a spiritual exercise,
and when there's, not only do we have God who's forced there
is an enemy against us.
Yeah. And he's whispering the whole
time, like, you're not good.
You know, like, what are you gonna pray?
You know, there was this, there was this performance factor
that I was feeling and
that I wasn't depending upon the spirit
to actually move into that space.
And when men aren't confident about anything,
they don't move typically.
Yeah. And so, anyway, go on.
- Anyway, so⁣- 20 years of prayer,
- He's a, he was a great husband.
I, I, you know, honor him in that way. I
- Appreciate that.
- But that was just one area
where I'd be like, oh, I wanna pray.
And actually Dennis and Barbara Rainey, who I think you've,
who you will have on the show
or if out on, on this podcast,
he was like, he would be saying his thing.
We pray every night together.
And I'd be like, I wanna do that,
but we just don't, you know?
And, and so anyway, I had been praying for a long time
that we'd be a praying couple.
And for some reason about 20 years into our marriage,
I don't know the Lord, I guess the Lord just moved
and answered my prayer finally.
Yeah. But we happened to need two new chairs
and we had this corner in our room.
We were in a new home
and we bought these two new, like, comfortable chairs.
And we found ourselves there every morning together drinking
our coffee and reading our bibles or whatever.
And we had teenagers in the house.
And one day Brian just said,
do you wanna, you wanna pray today?
And I was like, I would love to
- Because we have teenagers in the house.
I mean that's really, that's that,
that's really the link between those two
- Statements.
We had had some struggles with teenagers and really, yeah.
The struggles that we had with our, one of our teen
or two of our teenagers kind
of was a little bit of the impetus.
But it was just like, and then the next day we found
ourselves there again and he would
say, should we pray again today?
And I was like, yes.
And now we have this habit,
but it didn't happen for 20 years.
Yeah. And so if there's something
that you see in your spouse,
start praying about it and don't give up.
Yeah. That's very scriptural.
Don't give up and pray about it. Yeah.
Jesus asked us, asked us to do that.
And I think for me, I really tried hard
and there was times I, my heart was disappointed,
but don't keep nagging about it
and don't keep, you know,
just like be quiet and pray about it.
And it can go both ways.
And now, I mean though, again, we're not perfect
and now we're in a different season
where we have some kids out of the house
and he has to leave the house a little bit
earlier than I do.
And so may, it's now it's not quite as regular
because we have a different schedule.
But as much as we can,
if we find ourselves in those two chairs,
which we do quite often, we, we pray together
and we have a little system for doing that that we love.
And it's not anything like crazy or anything,
but it's just different people on different days.
And we always pray for our three children
and we always pray for each other.
And now, now that's a little habit that we have. Wow.
But if you're a young couple hearing this
and you're like, we're never gonna get there.
Yeah. Have patience. Yeah. Keep praying.
- I love⁣- Keep asking God.
- Absolutely. Yeah. And to me, that aspect of it,
of not nagging your spouse,
which might be a temptation when you're younger,
but learning to give it to the Lord.
- Yeah.⁣- And it sounds like you were honoring Brian still
in that time, even though you shared what you wanted,
but you weren't nagging about it.
Right. Play the long game. Play
- The long game.
Yeah. You know, I have a question though. Okay.
- Even⁣- Throughout, so we said we wanna,
we wanna be in a place where a rhythm
or a pattern is that we're gonna talk to each other.
We're gonna ask each other, how can I help you?
We're gonna try to study each other.
We're gonna try to be patient when we're not
getting what we want.
Right. Pray I like all that.
But the, just by nature of actually getting together
and talking is if you're gonna be honest with each other,
it's gonna produce some conflict.
Right. Maybe some hurt feelings or I feel threatened,
or I feel defensive right away
because I'm not doing something that you want me to do,
or I'm failing you in some way, which can,
you know, escalate.
And because that happens right
where you end up actually having an argument
because you were honest with each other.
So I'm curious, again, I don't wanna put
everybody on the spot.
I mean, what do you say to that?
What, what do we do when we're in a,
when we actually are honest with each other
and it turns into an argument
or it turns into we can't get past this
spot with each other.
What would be your advice
or thought on Okay, what's the next step?
I think I just heard one from Jen. Yeah.
Which would be, if we're talking to people
who actually see God as their ultimate authority,
you should talk to him and bring him into it.
Right. I heard that. Right.
What else would you suggest we do when we feel that?
- That's a good question.⁣- Yeah.
I think I heard from you different personalities.
So needing more space and then liking to engage.
So for, I would say,
and I've seen this, you know, the idea of like,
okay, I need space.
So saying that, but also agreeing on a time when you would
come back together.
So having sort of a structure for re-engagement,
but also strategy safety.
- Yeah. Yeah.⁣- What are your ground rules around that?
Yeah. Whatever the couple needs.
- I think, I mean, I think you guys are athletes,
you've been on athletes in action, we've played sports,
your kids, we were talking about your kids
playing soccer and all that.
You know, there's a point in a game
where when you realize the momentum's not going in your
favor, like when the other team is, is is beating you up
and you realize what, what You have a built-in mechanism
to stop, stop that momentum. It's call a timeout.
- Yeah.⁣- And the timeout just allows you
to huddle up again and just go, okay, we recognize
that we're not in a good spot.
And I think there's something about that.
I don't think I have the freedom when we were first five
years of marriage, newlywed of going just that freedom
of halt the momentum
and just recognize we're funky right now.
This isn't good. This isn't what we want.
It's almost like get outside of yourself for a second. Yeah.
And just look in and go, yeah, I don't like you right now.
Yeah. And I don't like what we're doing right now.
We're still in it. Let's just call a time out.
What do you need right now in this moment?
Do you need for me to hear more about your pain?
Do you need space? Mm.
You know, and you just, you just call that, literally call
that time out I think is a huge help to go,
let's analyze what's going on.
What are we really mad about?
Is now the right time and place to type this conversation?
What do you need in order to go forward? Okay.
And then you come up with a plan.
But what we don't do often enough is just, just recognize
that we're, we're on a
trajectory that's not good for our marriage.
- Let's stop. Yeah.⁣- Let stop. Yeah. Just
stop it. Stop it.
- Right. And I would say for myself,
if I'm calling myself a Christ follower, I have a spirit
inside of me.
- Yeah.⁣- That can actually start to change
how I respond in this moment.
- Yeah.⁣- So I would say it took several years into our
marriage, but if we were starting to come to a head
and I started to get defensive, that's my mo is I'm going
to get defensive and I'm gonna throw it all back on you.
And this is how you're talking,
this is how you're not doing it.
Right. This is, you know,
and it's you, you, you instead of, okay, spirit,
stop me right now
and show me what do I need to change in this moment.
- Love⁣- That.
- Help me to get my eyes not focused on him anymore.
'cause that's what I do is I make ed the problem
and say, Jesus, where do I need
to open my eyes right now? Yeah. To what I'm
- Doing. Yeah.
- And help me to see it and control my tongue
and control my thoughts right now and come in spirit.
Yes. That I say, I believe that's
- Good. Yes.
- That the Holy Spirit can change me in those moments.
So that has been something that's been huge for us.
And when one of us is doing it,
how the tide slowly starts to change.
But if we're both doing it, it's like,
oh my gosh, wait, hold on.
Why, why are we doing this? Right.
I, I am sorry that I said that. I should not have said that.
And he's quick to apologize.
And then we get back onto the trajectory of figuring out
what do we need to do here in this moment. That's good.
- So that's really, tell him about your,
take it back, your what you learned.
When did you start doing Take it back
- Pretty early.
This is good. Yeah.
So this is one of our little strategies with each other is
that we would often realize that one
or the other of us was saying something
that was triggering the other person.
- Yeah.⁣- And so just, it's just the old playground tactic.
Right. So we, we would give each other permission
to say, take it back.
And what take it back means is whether you realize it
or not right now, you are stepping on a very vulnerable
spot inside of me.
And I'm getting angry.
I am hurt, I am, I am having a negative reaction to this.
And so you can say, take it back.
And then I have the option as a free will, human being,
being adult, adult grown man.
I can either say I, I take it back. And then,
- And, and what's really cool is in that moment
where you say, I take it back.
Tell me about that.
- Yeah. Why? I don't know what's going on here.
- Why is, what is that triggering inside of you right now?
Because I have no idea
that I'm stepping on a landmine right now.
So tell me more about that.
- And so instead of it turning into a fight
or going all the way right to the end of
that road, you stop it.
You, you're taking it.
You're intentionally taking the time out.
- Yep.⁣- And then now we're actually having a conversation
about, you know, why is this sensitive to you?
Which can turn into a really fruitful
conversation instead of a fight.
Or I can say, yeah, I'm not taking it back.
I did mean it. We're actually,
- And I know it's a landmine
- And we're gonna ride this all the way to the end
of the road all the way down, which never ends.
Well, I don't know why we would've ever chosen that,
but sometimes we did.
And it's like, no, let's actually respect that.
Take it back moment. This actually can work for us.
You know, it literally has not only prevented a whole bunch
of unnecessary arguments, but it's helped us to get closer.
- Yeah. Yeah.⁣- Because we're, we're studying each other.
We're learning things that we don't know that are offending
or something I'm sensitive about right now,
or there's this whole story behind that word.
Right. Or this implication
that you don't even realize. Yeah.
- You gotta have a strategy of some kind. Yeah. Yeah.
And I love, Amy, your point about,
I mean we do, we have a choice, right?
We can choose to the spirit or choose to the flesh.
- Yeah.⁣- But if we stop and,
and think of that as a primary question here,
am I gonna lean into what the Lord we want me to do?
- Yeah.⁣- It can take it in
a completely different direction.
As you said. We always have a choice,
but we have the hopes that Christ can help us respond.
Yeah. Supernaturally
- We do.
And you gotta have, I'm gonna,
I'm gonna throw this in real quick,
Marshall, while we're here.
'cause I was thinking this while Jen was talking to, to,
to make this spiritual move.
It's, it's a decision that we make.
We get to decide whether we're gonna walk with God or not.
And some of the chaos that is in our homes right now,
whether you've been married three years or 30 years, is just
because one or both of us has never said yes
to letting God be in control.
Right. So that's fundamental.
But even if both of us have said yes to God,
we're gonna need a community of people around us
that will help us to grow
and help us to stay on the right path.
We were never intended to do it all
by ourself, which I think that's another
- American That's a great habit.
Well, and it's a great habit that what you're bringing up.
Go ahead. Take it. Well, just because I,
I think we're going back to that idea.
What were the rhythms? What are the rhythms that,
that I think newlyweds could start is like right away get
into a small group or get into
or have a group of people around you
that you can do life with.
And it starts with a church.
So find a faith, Jen likes to say where,
where are the places that we are going,
where faith can grow us?
You know, where, where can we intersect with that?
- Yeah.⁣- At a church, at a family camp, at a, you know,
mission trip with other couples or with other people.
So I think, I think that's huge that when you let
that linger or you go, I don't need anybody else.
Like where are you in places
where you can be vulnerable and accountable?
- I love⁣- That. Yeah. In the same way you should think
about your money in a wise way early.
Don't wait on that. Yeah. Set up an investment portfolio.
Think about your future.
You should have, you should think the same way about people.
- Yeah.⁣- And we need somebody that's a little bit older
and further down the road from us Yeah.
That we can turn to, to give us wisdom.
- Right.⁣- Right. Because they've been there.
We need some other people that are right where we're at so
that they can empathize with us.
We can journey together, we can cry together,
we can laugh together.
And ideally if we really wanna go all the way to the end,
we need right away some other couples
that we're pouring into.
Yeah. Like we don't have to wait till we get 10 years into
this thing to be a marriage that's on mission
and is actually starting to think about
how do we invest in other people in some kind of way.
- Or singles, they don't even need to be married.
- Absolutely.⁣- Yeah.
- So that's a good portfolio of relationships to have
that the sooner you start moving in that direction,
and we know it's difficult.
Like we're, we're isolated, disconnected, busy
as people busy.
Yeah. It is an intentional, again,
just like with your money.
- Yep.⁣- Right. You, you have to be intentional
to put these things in place because you believe doing
so will create a different future for you.
Right. That's what's at
- Stake.
Agreed. Agreed. Speaking of money, I love that.
Speaking of money, I'd love to hear about that.
As we said, 40% of couples usually are getting divorced,
gives of some money related route.
We've talked a lot about the underlying
and the relational aspects of it,
but talk practically how you're coming together,
separate check checkbooks, separate histories.
How did you navigate that?
Bringing money together and your stories
and your expectations around money?
I'm seeing Amy smile here.
Is there something, tell me, Amy, what, what do you think,
what's your advice, Amy?
- What's your financial She's read,
we're surrounded with, you've read
- Books, I read's book.
It's been fantastic. I grew up in a home.
I did not learn really anything about money. Okay.
And I got married young at 23
and Ed is a few years older than me
and he had it all set out.
- Ah, okay.⁣- And he's got lists. Thank you.
And he's got ideas and he is got, he had the insurance.
He, you know, had the apartment. Like he kind of had it.
And so I have
- Been the fun one,⁣- Have been the fun one. You're
- The fun one⁣- Morphed into it.
And he really is happy to take the financial role
and responsibilities in our family.
It is something that I'm still growing it
and still wanting to learn more.
Again, I loved Russ's book that was eyeopening
and very helpful for me just to begin to understand
how many works and where it can go and yeah.
- So, well this will sound terrible.
We've never been hugely budget driven, even in saying
that I'm a list person,
but two principles that we both signed up for right away
and it's, it's really worked for us is one, we wanted
to be givers.
We wanted to honor God saying, give the, you know,
the first fruits give the tithe.
- Yeah.⁣- So we've always taken
that seriously together without hesitation.
And we don't do debt.
- No. We don't overspend.⁣- We don't overspend.
We, we don't, we don't spend more than we make. Yeah. Yeah.
And we were both committed to that,
which left us feeling very wealthy.
Yeah. And again, we don't even need to get into numbers,
but we, we were not like numerically wealthy, but
because I think we gave to God, I, and,
and we didn't do debt, it seemed like we always had money
to do what we wanted to do.
- Yeah.⁣- And that's, that's our story.
That's, that's the way it worked for us.
- You're hitting the big rocks though.
Honor the Lord. Spend less than you earn.
- Yeah.⁣- You know, don't be a slave to the lender. Yeah.
- I wish we would've keep track still to this day.
We're 24 years in
and I still honestly don't like the way we
keep track of our money.
That's probably making Russ cringe
somewhere in the building right now.
We don't do a good job of keeping track of it beyond.
We're gonna give right away
and we're gonna work really hard not
to spend more than we have now.
You gotta know how much you have and where it's all going.
Right. So that's gotten more complicated.
Yeah. But that's driven us.
- It has driven us. And there has been some tension.
It's, it's not that it's been tension free
- Because sometimes we've overspent.
- Yeah. 'cause sometimes we've overspent
or sometimes I wanna spend here and he wants to spend there
or I wanna spend and he really wants to just keep saving.
And so there has, it has come with some tensions,
- Communication and compromise.
Yeah, I was thinking of that.
Like if you are spontaneous, so how do you blend
that into a budget if you know you need to save?
How do you blend that in? It's kind of a compromise
of honoring both desires
and knowing those are things
that God put into your marriage.
- Yep. Yep. And so in our budget,
when we do follow our budget, which isn't all the time,
but there is a section in there for just kind
of like my miscellaneous money.
And so it's not something
- Where⁣- Fun money.
Fun money that I can still have fun and Yeah.
And go and do fun experiences. So that's part of the
- Budget.
- Yeah.⁣- Yeah.
- Sounds like what do you guys do? It's a good start. Yeah.
- Well I'm just thinking for the newlyweds. Yeah.
I mean if they're really newlyweds that for sure the idea is
that you're becoming one. Yeah.
- Right.⁣- And so there really is no separate separate
we have, we have committed to this
and I know that's so odd this day and age.
- Yeah.⁣- And I know there needs to be some protections
and need to be wise about that,
but for us it's like we just, we became one,
our checking accounts became one everything.
Even though there are times that I haven't worked,
it's not like he holds that over my head or you know, we're
- Both, this is my money.
- Yeah. My money, I'm here we are,
we are con both contributing to the family.
And so that's something that we always encourage is
that you become one every physically and as a family.
And that our money is our money. It's not my money.
- And Jen, I know that that's easier for a couple, that's
- 23, 24. Yes.
- 25. But would you say that's still true of a couple
that's getting married at 32, 35, where they've had,
- Well blend blended, they already had a different way
of operating maybe in their
- Previous marriage.
I think, well every situation's gonna be different.
So you kind of, I think you need
to get some wise counsel on that.
But yeah, in general I still do think that that,
that a principal applies across the board.
And again, you might have different kids, you know,
you have, you bring in other kids.
So that is a great question.
But, and I think it would be wise
to get some counsel on that.
But nonetheless, I still think if you're gonna be one that
that is gonna also include that as well.
It's a posture. I mean it's, and it's just like,
and there's also no secrets.
So even if you, like you, let's say you are a blended family
or you have something that is from your grandparents
or something like that, that it could stay there
but the other person knows about it and there's no secrets.
You know, you're one in that area.
- I think, I think every, and especially
as I think about those couples that are in unique
situations, whether it's blended,
whether it's getting married later, both are working,
somebody is coming from a lot more money than the
other person is having.
How do I take complexity and move to simplicity?
What's not good is when couples go the other way around
where they decide, let's, let's move towards complexity
where you don't have full transparency
and I can't see what's over there.
And it's like, that's where the enemy I think can get in
real quickly and start planting seeds of going,
well no, that, that's your money.
You can do what you want to with you.
You can go buy that car. We just had this conversation
with a couple that they're a mess.
And one of the reasons why they're a mess is
because one, they're, they're believing that,
well I'm not sure if this marriage is gonna work
and so I need to start building a wow.
A little nest egg over here.
And then when they went to go buy a car,
the husband was like, we,
we don't have the money to buy a car.
Right. Well no I've, I've been saving over here.
I've, I've got money for a car.
Well it's like now I've got this seeds of distrust.
So the very thing that you're trying to protect yourself
from, the very thing that you're trying
to protect yourself from is create, creates distrust.
- Yeah. How about that?
- Love the ideas here. Thinking forward, right.
Maybe a couple of years down the road kids,
tell me a little bit about that.
As you were in this stage may probably, at the moment, most
of us don't realize what we need
to be thinking about when kids are coming down the road.
But looking back now,
what would you say couples should be thinking about?
I think about possibly a family, you know,
there might be a stay at home decision.
So income's decreasing. Yeah. We talked about those things.
You don't necessarily know when life gets really busy
and there's these habits
that are gonna protect you in the next phase.
What would you tell young couples
during this just married phase
that they need to be thinking about?
- Well, if nobody else wants to jump in, I think
you get real excited about the day the baby's
coming. Right.
- Yeah.⁣- And you don't think prayer,
prayer enough about when the baby's leaving
or what type of family you want
to have while the baby's there.
Yeah. And so I think that's when you like use that
that time maybe
after those first three months
where it's just a miserable morning
sickness and all that kind of stuff.
But where, when you get to that season
where you can really start thinking about
and having intentional conversation,
what do you want family to look like?
Do you want us both to be working?
Do you want one of us to be home?
Well what do you want the first three years to look like?
Or five years of the development of the child?
What, how much time are we gonna be spending?
What are the ramifications
of all those decisions if you just kind of go into it going,
we're adding a baby to our current life.
- Yeah.⁣- That's gonna be fraught with all kinds
of difficulties and problems
because you're just adding complexity
to an already busy life.
You're changing the dynamic of your family.
- Yeah.⁣- And you probably need to think about
how I need to change with it.
Or else you'll find yourself going,
we don't have any time, we don't have enough money.
We're not saving for college.
I don't feel like I'm having the kind
of influence I wanna have on my, my child.
And so it's like, how can I be intentional with some
of those conversations earlier rather than
- After you have the baby Love it.
So what needs to be shed? What needs to be leaned into.
Yeah. That's great. It's good Brian,
- I saw this funny meme the other day.
It said, you know, for all you young parents
with children in diapers, you think this is expensive.
- Mm.⁣- Wait till they're teenage boys in the Costco hall
that you have to get just to feed them you for the meat.
Yeah. Like I, I think we think okay well you know,
just wait till they get out of this season
and then we'll have a little bit more money
or you know, wait till they're out of this, you know, out
of their, the travel ball
and then I'll have some more money.
Well they just keep getting more and more expensive.
- Yeah.⁣- The older that that child
- Gets.
- Right. So⁣- And then they get engaged.
- Yes. And⁣- Then suddenly you gotta plan
for money and, and wedding.
Yes. Then you wanna go visit the grandkids. Yes.
And so it's like it never ends. Yes. You have to
- Keep planning for⁣- That.
Yeah. You can't just keep trying to
think you're gonna adjust.
It's like how do I get ahead of that?
- Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. You, you know when you, Brian,
I really like what you said, you probably thought about
what the values are maybe a little bit,
but that would be a new topic
that maybe even seems intimidating
and I think it's okay to say like most nobody
really knows that.
So that's a new conversation to be had. Right.
- Definitely.⁣- One thing we can say though,
that you can know right now is you said this,
you're gonna have to change, you're gonna have to give,
that was a big struggle for me.
I just wanted to keep living the way we lived when it was
just you and me
and it's like, nope, you can't do that anymore
and be healthy with each other and in the home.
So the longer I try to hold on to the way life was,
IM just gonna be miserable.
So what can I change now again?
What do you need from me now
that you didn't need from me last month?
- Yeah.⁣- Because he or she is in our house now. Yeah,
- Yeah.
- Living with us. Right.
And and we're getting up in hours that we've never gotten up
before in our lives and we are feeling of fatigue.
We've never felt in our bodies before. What do you need now?
'cause it's gonna be different.
- Yeah.⁣- Right. So I really like that.
Were you thinking of something Jim? No. Good. Yeah. Awesome.
- Really good couples. Thank you for sharing wisdom.
I'm sure young marriages are gonna benefit from
this as a result.
In closing, we, you know, you mentioned this, you,
you all have done a lot of work with marriage
and speaking, encouraging couples through family life.
So we hope families will take advantage
of engaging in a weekend to remember
or other family life resources.
Jen, you mentioned this,
it's financial possibly seeking a counselor in Blue Trust
would love to help you with that.
We look forward to our next session,
which we'll be talking about marriage with children.
But in the meantime, may the Lord bless you and keep you.
- Thank you so much for listening to the Wisdom for Wealth
for Life podcast brought to you by Blue Trust.
Thanks so much for listening
and please subscribe
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Sure, I've added punctuation to the text as requested:

---

- So coffee's made up of two very different things. Beans and water. And all you need to do, you know, if you were to combine beans into water, it's not coffee, you know, it's just beans. Sharing the same space with water. And it's not a very appetizing drink at all. No. And so the only way to make coffee is you have to grind up the beans. The water has to be boiled, and then you get wonderful coffee and you're highly caffeinated and all that. So it's all and happy and you're happy. So both things have to have to change fundamentally in order for them to be one. Yeah. And I, and I don't think we signed up for that in marriage. We just didn't think about that. We didn't think that in, in order for us to become a we, Me has to change.

- You're listening to the Wisdom for Wealth for Life podcast, brought to you by Blue Trust. This episode is part one of a four-part series Seasons of Money and Marriage. The first season. Newly marrieds on this panel will have two married couples, Brian and Jen Goins, and Ed and Amy Budzinski, hosted by Blue Trust's Senior Financial Advisor, Marshall Potter. If you're single and wanted to be married or engaged or newly married, this episode is for you.

- Today we're excited to have two experts in marriage who have a lot of background with marriage speaking and counseling and practical life experience. Yes. Having processed it themselves. And so we're excited to introduce Ed and Amy Dubinski and also Brian and Jen Goins, welcome.

- Have you to be here.⁣ - And I'd love for the couples just to get to know you a little bit better. So tell me a little bit about your work in marriage, how long you've been married, a little bit about your family.

- Yeah. So we've been married for 24 years. Ooh. Yes. And we have, we have four kids. Our oldest is 23. We've got a daughter that's gonna be 21 next week. And then we have a 18-year-old and a 13-year-old.

- All the stages.

- Yes, we have all the stages right now. Yes.

- Yeah. And we work with a sports ministry called Athletes In Action. So we work with college and professional athletes doing ministry with them all over the country.

- Yeah. And then we've been working with Family Life with their weekend to remember marriage ministry for around 20

- Years.

- 20 years.⁣ - Yeah. Wow.

- Yeah.⁣ - Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. Thank you.

- Yeah.⁣ - Brian and Jen.

- Well, we're Brian and Jen Goins. Yes. And we have three awesome kids. We have a 24, 21 and a 16-year-old. And then we have been married for 27 years. I didn't know we beat you guys. Yeah. Married longer than you guys.

- Amazing. Yeah. But they've been on the speaker team at Family Life for a little bit longer than

- Us. Right, right.

- So⁣ - We also ministered to couples through Family Life's Weekend to remember and speak at marriage conferences around the, the country. And we've been doing that for about 17 years. And then we, I also work at my local in Melbourne, Florida.

- Okay.⁣ - And Brian works at Family Life full time.

- Yeah.⁣ - So that's kind of our, our vocation and where we work.

- Love it. Yes. Sounds good. So obviously living and breathing this stuff, which is great. So if you can remember back newly married, right? Yes. You're getting married and maybe you go on, you have the wedding, go on the honeymoon. You come home and you're having your first discussion about something and you find out, hey, we don't exactly agree on this. So talk about the process of finding unity, exploring unity. Unity. How did you process those things? Was it that you were, were you processing some of those in advance or was it just as you came into marriage and you were discovering that, what was kind of the process you found? And I say that just because I think others, John Maxwell talks about like a lot of life is making the right decisions and then maintaining those. But we know that, you know, up to 40% of couples end up getting divorced because of money alone. And there's lots of other reasons. I feel like the exploration is what are those right decisions and how do we come to that unity together? So tell me about that process and what that kind of looked like at the beginning for you. Maybe Brian and Jen start us off.

- Yeah, yeah, we can.

- Sure.

- I was just trying to think back to, you know, for us, we had, we, we thought we were so similar. We thought everything was gonna be super easy. 'cause we had, you know, similar backgrounds, similar college, similar faith walk. Both were older kids, you know, older. We had, we both were the eldest and we had younger siblings. And so we just thought, this is both the same, born of the same year. It's like, this is gonna be super easy. And then I find out that she likes to celebrate. Her family celebrates Christmas on Christmas Eve where they open up all their presents and they had certain meals that they did that weren't exactly like mine. And, and Jen loves to go to our church where there's a little bit more emotion shows. So all of a sudden, like you're talking about church and talking about Christmas, like two big traditions that are a big part of what you think family's gonna look like. Absolutely. And so that was something I know that we all of a sudden right away going, what are we gonna do this Christmas? And I don't know, you know, for us, what, what do you think really has helped us move towards, I would say, solving some of those things?

- Right. I think after having a lot of disagreements, a lot of frustration, broken expectations, we've come to this idea that as we come to those things and those big decisions that you're gonna make, that do affect your life. Yeah. And as you celebrate holidays, as you deal with money, as you think about how you're going to raise kids or all the things that you think about when you're a newlywed, we have learned to, we kind of say a couple C's. And that is that we've learned to communicate on those issues. And then we've learned to compromise on those issues where we come together and we're like, let's talk about it.

- Yeah.⁣ - We have to sit down and make a time to really talk about it. And we really share our hearts and we're good listeners. So we really listen and honor each other in those things. But then we say, well, where can we make some compromises? How can we come up with our way of doing it love? And what's gonna be a standard in our family on those, on those things. That's great.

- One of the things I wish somebody had told us when we were new Ed, in fact, our, our daughter who's just got engaged and our son just got engaged, by the way. So they better listen to this podcast. Wow.

- Yes.⁣ - They both just got engaged and, and our daughter and future son-in-Law, were talking about how they've got a code word now for when something's more important to the other person. So like, if they were to go, this is, this is really, really important to me. You say this word, you know, and I'm not gonna divulge their word that's for them. That's, but I've heard other people say, on a scale of one to 10, how much do you value this thing? So on a scale of one to 10, how much do you value opening Christmas presents on Christmas night or Christmas Eve, you know, versus Christmas day. And if you're both a nine, well then you've gotta, you know,

- Compromise. Yeah.

- You've gotta compromise. You gotta figure out. But if one is a eight and one is a two, oh, okay. Well maybe I'll sacrifice because it's really important for you.

- Right, right. I love that.

- Well, and before you even get to that, I was just thinking, I love that to communicate to compromise. Right. But there's such a jolt that happens when you first realize what you didn't realize. Yeah. Which is that we, we really do see this differently. So Amy and I met in Chicago across several years of time. We were both in school, but I'm from Cleveland, she's from Minneapolis originally. And Clevelanders in Minneapolis, people see the world very differently. They just, they have different histories. Yeah. They, they, they just have a different mentality. So I think when we first started to bump into those differences, it's that, that feeling of, oh, I don't like that. I don't like that. That she sees the world so differently. And how did I miss this? Because I've loved everything about her up to the, up to this point. Hmm. And now, yeah, we're gonna open up gifts the night before. Like what? I can't live with that for the rest of my life. Who does that?

- Yeah.⁣ - Who would do that? I cannot live with that for the rest of my life. Yeah. And you start to stack those up with each other. And Jen mentioned expectations and how do you prepare for expectations ahead of time? People can tell you, you can read books, you can get premarital counseling, which is super helpful. But until you feel that feeling of, I don't like that. And if I'm honest, I'm not sure if I like you right now, is a really, that's a jolting thing.

- It's not what you're expecting, you said I do.

- No. So to be able then even to say, well, that that's actually normal.

- Yeah.⁣ - To run into that, no, let's learn to communicate. And in the midst of our communication, this is what compromise looks like. Like we signed up to become one, which means I'm gonna have to let go of some of what has been my normal forever and you're gonna have to let go of some of your normal and we're gonna make a new normal together. Yeah. That's good.

- But I would even say, I think some of the tensions that we first started to encounter was just how we communicated with each other. Okay. So it wouldn't even necessarily be an argument. Or maybe it was, but started to realize, gosh, we communicate really differently. So I need time to think, to process to maybe step away from a situation.

- Why do you need time to think? I've already thought it all out. Why can't we just talk about it right now? Yes. What are you thinking

- About? Yes. Come on. And the excitement and the energy and the volume grows and I start to shrink back even more. 'cause I think you're getting too big right now.

- Yeah.⁣ - And all of a sudden now we're in an argument because we are not communicating well. So I think even to back it up, we found ourselves very different and how we were just talking to each other. Yeah. And we had to step back and figure out.

- And I think one thing with communication, you're right. It's easy to throw out. Just communicate and compromise, you know? Yeah. Yeah. So there's you, you kinda have to back that up a little bit. And one thing that we've been kind of saying about communication lately that I really like, and I feel like it resonates with people and it resonates with me Okay. Is that communication is a skill that can be learned.

- Yes.⁣ - So you're not just born a great communicator and you can't look at other marriages and say, well, they know how to communicate. You can learn to communicate. Yeah. And it's a skill that we always need to be pressing into and learning more about. On the way here on the airplane, I was reading a book about communication and I'm thinking to myself, I teach on communication and I'm learning something from this book. And I know honestly the hard part is, is that I was coming here to communicate. So I was, it was something that I was preparing for. Usually when you're on an airplane, you're watching Netflix or you're reading your own book. Yeah. And so it takes some encouragement of like, okay guys, if we wanna learn this, it's gonna take a little work. Yeah. And you're not just gonna magically

- Yeah.

- Be good at something.⁣ - Yes. Right.

- You're not gonna magically whatever skill that you have, you have to work at it a little bit. And so learning, okay, if we're bad communicators, that means the good news is that you can learn

- It. Yeah.

- But the hard news is like, you're gonna have to make some steps of learning how to communicate and like, this is not a podcast on communication. Maybe we can talk about some general skills, but, and there's a million of 'em. Right. There's so many nuances. Like I said, you can be a lifelong learner on communication.

- Yeah. Yeah.⁣ - But start taking some steps of learning how to communicate, how to listen well, how to voice your opinion. You know, things like that, that a we to remember is a good place to start. But there's, you know, so many re resources to do that.

- Well, and Jen, what I'm hearing you say too built into that is you have to unlearn before you can relearn to do the, the right way. Sometimes we have to back up and unlearn bad habits. Things maybe we didn't even realize were bad habits until we started to bump into someone for whom they, this doesn't work.

- Yeah.⁣ - Right. And Brian, I hear you say this all the time, sometimes it's just changing our posture. And so this all goes back to when you, when you start to run into difficulties and realize things are different, when I realize things are different, I want Amy to get my way. Yeah. I want her to understand me.

- Yeah.⁣ - And maybe one of the first unlearning things is instead of coming with that attitude, it's to say, tell me more about that. Right. We talk about it all the time at conferences and even between us, let me slow down, tell me more about why you feel the way you feel. And then, and then really let that play itself out. Ask questions, try to understand, and then I'll get my turn again when we're both here in good, good faith posture towards one another. And then you can find understanding with each other. Yeah.

- So I want to draw out a little bit further. 'cause I think great, I love the idea of developing communication skills and the commitment, but I could also see myself being narcissistic in that I want to learn the communication skills so I can get more of what I want.

- True.⁣ - So talk about your faith and the underpinnings of that and maybe the experience you had with the Lord as you're walking through this. How's Lord speaking to you about your attitude towards your spouse and your heart, towards your spouse?

- Well, yeah, I, and Marshall, I think that's, that's really the underlying principle of even how you're approaching communication. 'cause Yeah. If you're just learning to, how do I communicate so that she can come, come to my way? Yeah. My way of thinking then that totally misses what the Bible talks about, which is the point of marriage is that I actually learned to love somebody else like God loves me.

- Yes.⁣ - And how does God loves me? He is always seeking to put my interests first. Yes. And so, you know, Philippians two talks about don't, don't merely look out for your own interests, but have the mind of Christ look out for the interest of another. Right. Look out. Absolutely. Look, how do I humble myself to go? It's more important in communication for me to understand what Jen's trying to communicate to me than what I'm trying to make her hear from me. And I think that's the hard, I mean for me as the newly, it's like, even as I was thinking about you guys talking about when you feel that, that moment where it's like, I don't know that I like you right now, I married you and I don't think I like you. And you can, you can do one of two things with that emotion. You can keep fighting for trying to change the person. Yeah. Or you can start to call a time out and say, okay, what do, what needs to change in me right now so that I can actually hear her better? And I don't think, I know, I didn't have that mentality the first five years into marriage at all. It was much more about I just want you to appreciate what I like me. Yeah, yeah. And me, because that's why I got married. And that really uncovers the deeper thing about marriage is that we got married really because I wanted someone to love me

- Good⁣ - As I am. And I don't want to change it.

- Yeah.⁣ - And if you go into marriage going, how does God want to change me in this relationship? It's a much different posture.

- Absolutely. Well, and we talk about this at the weekends all the time where we can be in a conflict or even a discussion. And if I just win all of the time

- Yeah.

- One of us is losing. Right. And so there's this quote that says, you know, you can win every battle and still lose the war. And it's like, am I seen Ed as my teammate, as my best friend? And how do I want both of us to win versus just me winning? Because if just I win in these moments and I just get what I want and what I think is best, I'm actually missing out on the relationship and the fruit of what can come if we both come to it together. Both sacrificing and both winning in the end.

- Yeah.⁣ - So,

- Well, and God brought us out of our singleness, which we, we could have stayed single and

- Yeah.

- And been fully fulfilled and fulfilled God's purposes. But for whatever reason, he brought us out of singleness to become one with each other. Which means that we, we really have signed up to become something different together than we would've been if we had stayed apart.

- Yeah.⁣ - Right. Like that's what we're signing up for. Which again, I don't know that we really think about what the pain of that's gonna be ahead of time or what that's actually gonna cost and I'm gonna have to be transformed and changed.

- Yeah.⁣ - But underneath that is really a, like, it's like our theology. We don't usually think this way, but our theology is getting confronted all the time. Very true. What do you really believe about God in

- This? Yeah. Yeah.

- Do you believe that God brought you together? Yeah. Like he has an intention and a purpose for you two to meet each other and to say yes to each other. And if again, that's to deal with that, honestly, if we say no to that in our heart of hearts, then we're gonna have all kinds of

- Conflict.

- Because these two very different people are trying to inhabit the same space with all of our selfishness, all of our expectations. Like Jen said, all of our inability to communicate. And I'm just gonna keep looking out for me. And, and you Mar Marshall, you said it. That's why I, I think it's a large reason why so many people just quit on it.

- Yeah.⁣ - Because I don't like that feeling.

- Yeah. Yeah.⁣ - But if we, if we give into the, the fact that God is behind this and he's trying to do something new

- Yes.

- I think it helps. Yeah.⁣ - Absolutely. It's,

- It doesn't make it easier, but it helps Absolutely. Right. To say, okay, then let's keep after this

- Together. Yeah.

- I love⁣ - That. So we've talked about, I mean the heart, clearly, the ongoing learning. Talk about being a student of your spouse as well, like studying them and getting to know them. What, what has that been like? Are there things you've explicitly done, I dunno, love languages, other types of things to get to know each other better. And, and tell me maybe something you realized about your spouse, like, oh wow, that's cool. And you kind of leaned into that and then,

- Hmm. I'm trying to think of one off the top of my head.

- That's something that's really

- Cool about me. Yes. You really learn. Yeah.

- But⁣ - Man,

- That's⁣ - Awesome. When you care about something, you, you slow down and pay close attention to it.

- Yeah.⁣ - I got, we moved out onto a property that has three acres and, and we bought this Toro zero turn mower years ago. Beautiful model. And when I first got it, I'd never had a mower like that before. And I started to study it. I wanted to understand all the different parts of it and everything that it did and how it worked and how it didn't work. And then, you know, how it worked on our terrain and what I could go over and not go over, you know. And there really is this whole process of just slowing down, pay attention and learn how this thing really works in, its in its space, you know? And really, again, it sounds so somewhat crass to try to make that leap, but it really is the same thing with a spouse.

- Look at your wife like a mower.

- Yes. Look at your wife. That's the takeaway. That's like a high end zero turn mower on my end. You're you're on high end. It's your term. But I, I don't know her. I think I do. Yeah. But I really don't know her. Yeah. 'cause we just, we just started with each other, right. We just got married, we just started to live in the same space. And, and so there's a humility, I think to that to say, I don't really know how this model operates and I, I need to understand, you know, how she operates even in this space and living in this place that we live in and in this season of life that we're in. 'cause it changes. Yeah. When you're both doing that for each other. Very cool things happen.

- It really does. I love, I mean, it's like the whole idea of, of being a dete detective of your spouse. You know, how do I and someone, what's called love focus. Like when I'm, like you said, when I love something, I focus on it. I see every asset or I see every aspect of that thing. And I know for me, I wish I had asked more questions about Jen early, you know, that was, I, I think we make more assumptions versus really being curious. That's, you know, what, what would make this Saturday win for you? That was one of our big disagreements was like Saturdays we didn't realize why we were so mad at each other on Saturday mornings.

- Yes.⁣ - And I thought I had a perfect perfectly planned out thing for Saturday. You know, I'd go out, I get to the garage, I'd see what needs to be fitting there, I'd go out in the yard a little bit, and then it was time for lunch and a nap and watching some college football. And suddenly Jen's like angry angrily vacuuming around me, you know, and I'm like, and I'm going, what, what's going on? I had a, I had a great Saturday

- And that's because at my home, my family of origin on Saturday was another work day. Like San Sunday was the rest day. My dad's a farmer, you know, an old farmer. So six days a week you work and then you get to rest.

- Yes.⁣ - And so on Sunday you get up and maybe you sleep in a tiny bit, but not much. And then you start working and you take care of your home and you take care of your yard and it's another pretty much another work day. And so when he's miserable, it's miserable. Yes. The way to live. And so that expectation of, we just had different expectations coming into a Saturday. And so after, I don't know, a couple years, we realized on Saturday morning, we need to get up and we need to each say what are our expectations for the day? What do we wanna accomplish today? How do we wanna rest if we wanna rest today? And just kind of having those expectations really helped and knowing what we both value.

- Yeah. What would be a win for you? What and what, why? And like in the moment of conflict, what, instead of keep arguing for your thing, like back up, call a time out and go, why is this frustrating you so much? Like just asking the why questions of what, what would make this a win for you this date night? Would, what would make it a win for you? I think that's trying to unpack like what is my, what are the love languages of my spouse? Like, you know, Gary Chapman about, and I, I just wish I had taken more time to learn this refuse of, of marriage versus just expect what I want outta marriage. Love

- It. So Brian and I, we lived in Charlotte, North Carolina for 12 years and his family's from North Carolina. And so big Tarheel fans, college, college basketball, Tarheel fans. And so our kids grew up in North Carolina also with their grandparents being so big Tarheel fans. And Brantley is engaged to this young man now. And about a month ago she has on like a Villanova hat. Wow. And we're like, like, excuse me.

- Yeah.⁣ - What's going on here? And she also has like this giant sweatshirt. We are cowboy fans. I won't explain that, but, and we're not Panther fans, but cowboy fans. She's lying to him. I know's lying to. And so, but here's the things she put on his jersey. She is like, I wanna be on your team. I wanna be on your team now. Yeah. Now the secret to that is once you get married, that's great. When you're like dating and you like the smell of the sweatshirt and you, you know, but then after you get married, the secret is is like we still wanna be on the same team.

- Yeah. Yeah.⁣ - We still wanna try to find out what the other person likes and, and join them in that we can end up really separating and, and end up after a while of, of separating not just on teams, but on everything. And then when the kids are gone and you're like, we don't even really know each other 'cause we haven't built that. We're doing things together. We're on the same team. You know, maybe not literally, but, you know, we've done things together, we've built it and it's so much, it's so easy after you get married for a while to kind of start going into your own corners. Yeah. And cheering for your own teams and doing for your own, you know, girls night out all the time or trips with other people or, you know, just not building up those date nights or just having the same being on the same page.

- Yeah. Jen.⁣ - So,

- And you, I think, you know, you're, you're getting somewhere. At least I feel this inside myself when, when I, I see those differences. 'cause I'm, I've studied, I've studied Amy, so I'm, I'm starting to get why she's different where it's coming from. But I think the next step is to appreciate it. Mm. And to, for me to appreciate it means, so for example, did not know that Amy was not gonna make any lists once we got married. That she just was, you know, not gonna keep track of things in the same way I was. I've got lists, Amy likes to say, I've got lists about my list where I'm saying I'm gonna make this list as soon as I get to this part of

- No, you, you really do have that.

- Yeah, I do. I have problems. I have problems. But that's how I just keep track of life. Yeah. I just keep writing things down. I'm organizing 'em 'cause I don't wanna lose 'em. And, and Amy doesn't do that. So we've had conflict over that because I feel like she's not paying attention to the details of our life and she feels like I'm smothering her with, you know, details of our life. Yeah. Right. And so there's just this conflict of two different ways of doing it. What I've grown to appreciate though, as we've communicated, as we've compromised about what that's gonna look like, as I've stopped trying to change her, I realize that that's just part of a bigger package that is a fun person

- Yeah.

- Who is spontaneous and knows how to just make the day fun in ways we didn't plan on. Mm. Like that has been part of her personality. It's one of the things that everybody loves about. It's why people wanna hang out with her and not me, but it's like, no, wait a minute. Like I don't wanna, I don't wanna change that part of who she is. Yeah. Like that. Okay. That may be a downside for me because of how I'm wired, but it's part of this larger package that I need in my

- Life. Yeah. So,

- You know, you start seeing those things like, I need this. I never would've chosen it if I had known this ahead of time, but it's actually what I need.

- Yeah.⁣ - To change and become something different and it becomes a blessing.

- Yeah.⁣ - That's when I think, you know, you're getting somewhere with each other.

- I love the gratitude thing. And I think you're also saying you're trusting God's purposes. Isn't that Yeah. It's a theological statement again, isn't it?

- Yeah,⁣ - Absolutely. So I love it. I'm hearing good communication, discovery. I love the Saturday morning idea. I totally relate to that same Yeah.

- We had some doozies on Saturday morning, same thing. And all you gotta do is just ask a question like, what would be a win for you that tomorrow I don't do that on Friday night or Saturday morning? What would be a win for you?

- I'm not sure. I wanted to know the answer to that though for a long time. The wind was, you did everything

- I wanted to do. Leave me

- Alone on⁣ - Saturday. That's just choose one. Right.

- Good⁣ - Compromise one. And let you have to have let you have to let go. Yes. Of the, you mentioned the coffee illustration that we have used before.

- Yes.⁣ - And I don't know if, if this is being appropriate time, Brian, why don't you give that illustration? Oh yeah. I, I do love it.

- Well just, yeah, just real quickly. It's like, we love coffee. So coffee's made up of two very different things. Beans and water and all you need to do, you know, if you were to combine beans into water, it's not coffee, you know, it's just beans. Sharing the same space with water and it's not a very appetizing drink at all.

- No.⁣ - And so the only way to make coffee is you have to grind up the beans. The water has to be boiled and then you get wonderful coffee and you're highly caffeinated and all that. So it's all and happy and you're happy. So both things have to have to change fundamentally in order for them to be one. And I, and I don't think we signed up for that in marriage. We just didn't think about that. We didn't think that in order for us to become a we me has to change. I have to change.

- That's good.⁣ - It's a, yeah. There you go. So let's, let's. And I think, I think our culture, we're living in a culture where, I mean, our kids are getting married in a day where I think the mentality is you get married so that somebody else makes you better.

- Yeah.⁣ - You know, so somebody else is adding to your agenda and, and you don't really have to change you. They just will hopefully come

- Alongside you. The soulmate idea means you're gonna come and fulfill me. You're gonna complete something that was missing in me, which is very different than I'm going to agape you, which we talked about. Right. You say, the Bible talks about love. I'm gonna do what's best for you in spite of what it costs me.

- I'm gonna die to my things inside of me. That's

- Really different.

- Yeah.⁣ - Yeah. And I don't know, I mean, how long do you think it needs to take before you get in touch with that? You know, it's like nobody signs up for that. I, I think pretty comprehensively you can say that just 'cause we don't know what that is. Right. But I don't think it has to necessarily take years and years and years to get there. Right. It's, it's kind of up to us like we can avoid a lot of misery by making that adjustment quicker rather than later.

- Yeah.⁣ - You know, how am I, how am I going to stop trying to demand that I get what I want? And you to become something for me and me start to think about how can I become something for you, which sounds miserable on the surface, but when both people are doing that, it's really fun. Right. And

- Enjoyable. Well, it's the paradox of what scripture says. Right. Like if you, if you give, you know, you'll your life. Yeah. If you give up your life, you'll gain your life. If you lose your life, you'll find it. If you give, it'll be given back to you. I mean, just, just over and over. And Paul even says this in one Corinthians seven where he talks about marriage and he, you know, he has a very real realistic view of marriage. He's like you, when you get married, your heart actually gets divided because you're not just thinking about you anymore. You're also thinking about how to please the Lord. I'm also thinking about how to please my spouse. I'm also thinking about how to please my kids. And so if we would give that message to newlyweds of, actually your heart's gonna be divided when you get married multiple times, but actually that's when you actually experience a full heart. You know, because it has to get divided in order for it to grow. It's so interesting.

- Yeah. So good. So with that spirit in mind, knowing what Christ has done for us, and we're doing that for our spouse, talk about some of the rhythms that you've laid down or almost seeds that you regularly plow into the soil towards one another. What are good habits or rhythms you've developed that you feel like strengthen your relationship? And that's, that's a good question.

- Yeah. I mean, we talk about this a lot and there's been seasons where we've done it really well. And then there's seasons, which when I say seasons could be two years, three years, but spending time together and it's this intentional going out or after the kids go to bed and say, we're putting away all distractions. So the season that we're in kind of right now is we do a lot of shoulder to shoulder activities together. So speaking at a marriage conference, watching a kids' sporting event, we're, we're here, we're together. But we don't get much face-to-face time, time where all those distractions are kind of put to the side. Yeah. The kids are, you know, we're, we're not watching a kid's event and just saying, how are you really doing today? Tell me about what's going on at work. And just this intense eye to eye and not so much shoulder to shoulder watching a movie together.

- Yeah.⁣ - We, we've gotten more of that, but yeah.

- Yeah. So when you're newly married in the first years Yeah. You are doing more of that. Yep. There, there may be aren't again, everybody's different. Everybody's getting married at different ages with different responsibilities. But it's, it's, it still is probably, you're gonna be doing more of this and to catch yourself when you start to separate from each other again, the sooner that you can catch while we're really not getting good face to face time anymore. Like, don't let that turn into a house fire before you, you know, as soon as it starts to smoke a little bit. Yeah. And one of the other feels like we're we, we really are not spending time with each other. We don't know each other well. We need to stop and

- Yeah.

- And turn towards each other. Yeah. Be intentional about it.

- I was just gonna jump in real quick, which feels totally unromantic.

- Right.⁣ - To a newlywed where you spent the last few years spontaneously getting together,

- Chasing each other.

- Yeah. Like showing up in the morning with a cup of coffee and there you go. And

- A giant⁣ - Sweat. You didn't have to tell each other. I I can't wait to when it's like, when are we getting to see each other again? Yeah. And then you get married and it's like, we got life, we got bills to pay, we've got kids. If you're a blended family coming in together Yeah. It's like all of a sudden you're adding a, a whole nother lay of layer of stress. And so to tell a couple, a young couple establish Right. Rhythms now that become non-negotiables. It sounds crazy. It's almost like when you guys give 'em investment principles. If you would just start putting the $25 a month or $50 a month

- Yep.

- Every month, you almost don't think about it anymore.

- Right.⁣ - And so what are those things that you don't have to think about anymore, you know, on a regular basis? Like we, you know, for Jen and I, I don't know when we develop this, but just the, we, we like to say, calendar your companionship. You know, one in seven, one in 30, one in 365, you know, once a week having that just check in and maybe it is at a soccer, you know, you're going into a soccer game or, or you're going out. But I'm gonna check in and just see what are the burdens you're you're facing right now? Where could I, you know, where could I help you? We ask questions of each other. One in 30, have a have a fun date night. You know, I, we could never maintain the a weekly date. Now we heard that from marriage conferences, some people that do. That's great. But it was like, that just seems like another, another thing to do. And it costs money and all that kinda stuff.

- We would've seasons, we do it really well for a year. Just

- I was just thinking⁣ - About, and then there'd be a year where we're like, okay, then we'd do it again. Well, for a year

- As far as actually going out to dinner,

- Something in the night,⁣ - Drop the kids at Ana right. Wednesday night to take care of your

- Kids. You got

- 90 minutes. Okay, what do you wanna

- Talk about?

- And then one in 365, just getting away once a year to do a marriage conference or a vacation or something like that. We've tried to do that. We haven't done it perfectly like you guys. But I think that if you, if you kind of get into where it doesn't feel like this is work anymore, then you'll feel you'll reap the benefits. Much like an investment.

- Right. Right. And I think something you said, you know, that going back to that shoulder to shoulder versus eye to eye, I'm presuming like the goal is when you're doing the one in seven, it is the true eye to eye. It's not a business meeting, you know, it's, you're really trying to just talk about you as a couple.

- Yes.⁣ - Well, Ed's got a list and

- He goes⁣ - Through his list. A list. Yes.

- Let's⁣ - Get it

- Out. Yeah.

- I think that's something that changed significantly is when you started to do what your friend Jason was doing when his wife would call. I think that was a good healthy

- Yeah. I've been telling this story for years. 'cause, and this was in the first few years that I would go to lunch with this guy named Jason. And consistently the only time he would answer his phone is if his wife called. Okay. So that would be the interruption. And she always seemed to call during lunch when we were out because that that's, she knew he was at lunch. Yeah. And Jason would listen and, and he wouldn't hardly say a word to her. It was, so there'd just be these kind of long pauses, you know, as I'm sitting there across the table waiting, when is he gonna be done? And at the end of the call, he would always say, how can I help you babe? Like consistently Wow. That that was a pattern for him to say, how can I help you babe? And at one point I finally asked him like, Jason, why do you ask, why do you always end your call that way? And he's like, because I don't know what she's gonna say. You

- Know⁣ - What she like. Well, that's brilliant.

- Yeah.⁣ - And I realized that I never just stop and ask Amy, how can I help you babe? Wow. You know, I've, I've tried to be present. I'm, I'm trying not to be a bad husband, but I've never actually just intentionally said, how can I help you? That's so even in these spaces where again, what are we doing in our time together just to even to cut to the chase to say, what do you need from me? How can I, somebody told me this summer at a camp that he starts every day by saying, how can I lighten your load today? Yeah. Is there anything I can do that's gonna lighten your load? And maybe she says something that he's actually not able to do.

- Right.⁣ - Yeah. It's, it's not like he's, you know, it's a blank check, but I'm at least letting you write whatever you want on the board. And I I will try to make that happen. Yeah. You know? Yeah. That's just a different way of doing life together.

- And it works. Conversely too, I can come to Ed, I think I just asked you the other day, did when you were struggling through an issue, I just kind of said, how can I best support you during this time? What can I do for you today? Absolutely.

- And my first answer was, I don't know.

- It was, yeah.⁣ - But at least I know you're thinking and now I will think about how, how can you be my partner in this?

- Yeah. Yeah.⁣ - She's on your team.

- Jen, Jen, Jen has done that. Just seasons of life where you've said, how can I serve you today? And it is just, it's radical. It, you know, you think that's not a, you think that that's not a really a big deal, but it's like, what? Just, I wake up every morning with an insecurity, you know, does anybody notice me? Will I matter today? Am I strong enough to make it through whatever I got on my plate at first there somebody to go, is there any way I can serve you today? Like just that Lord help you today. Yeah. Like

- What?

- Oh, it's good to know that somebody, one person in the world is thinking about me.

- We're a⁣ - Team. Yeah. I think one thing that, kind of switching gears a little bit is that some of the habits we were talking about habits. Yes. And so we could probably sit up here and say, pray together, go to church together, tithe together, be generous together. And those are all great things. Yeah. And I would say definitely, you know, if you can, but there's gonna be couples out there who are gonna say, I wanna do that, but my spouse doesn't wanna that. Yes. Yes. And so I know for Brian and I, one of the things, I mean, Brian and I both like, like we said, we both came from Christian families. We went to a Christian college. We, we wanted to be in ministry. And I just thought we would naturally pray together all the time. That was one of the habits that I wanted in our marriage. And for some reason, Brian never pursued that. We, it's not like we fought all the time or anything like that. We had our disagreements, but it's just one of the things that we didn't do. And I, that was a longing of my heart. And I really didn't wanna be the one to always be like, let's pray together. I really wanted him to kind of lead out on that. And so I just started praying and asking, God, would you make us a couple that prays together? And honestly, year after year, it never really happened. We would pray before meals or we would pray like maybe every once in a while if we got in the car and going on a trip or something like that. But I know both of us didn't really have that in our family. And so it wasn't modeled for us. Totally. But after about 20 years of praying for this, and I don't mean to throw him under the bus

- Break.

- I mean, it's good one we talked about. We've talked about this.

- It's a good one. Yeah.⁣ - It's a big one. And I, and it's not that I didn't know,

- Nor is it that you're not praying in your own life. Right. It's just different to try to pay with it's, there was,

- There was, there was an intimidation factor. And again, if this is a spiritual exercise, and when there's, not only do we have God who's forced there is an enemy against us. Yeah. And he's whispering the whole time, like, you're not good. You know, like, what are you gonna pray? You know, there was this, there was this performance factor that I was feeling and that I wasn't depending upon the spirit to actually move into that space. And when men aren't confident about anything, they don't move typically. Yeah. And so, anyway, go on.

- Anyway, so⁣ - 20 years of prayer,

- He's a, he was a great husband. I, I, you know, honor him in that way. I

- Appreciate that.

- But that was just one area where I'd be like, oh, I wanna pray. And actually Dennis and Barbara Rainey, who I think you've, who you will have on the show or if out on, on this podcast, he was like, he would be saying his thing. We pray every night together. And I'd be like, I wanna do that, but we just don't, you know? And, and so anyway, I had been praying for a long time that we'd be a praying couple. And for some reason about 20 years into our marriage, I don't know the Lord, I guess the Lord just moved and answered my prayer finally. Yeah. But we happened to need two new chairs and we had this corner in our room. We were in a new home and we bought these two new, like, comfortable chairs. And we found ourselves there every morning together drinking our coffee and reading our bibles or whatever. And we had teenagers in the house. And one day Brian just said, do you wanna, you wanna pray today? And I was like, I would love to

- Because we have teenagers in the house. I mean that's really, that's that, that's really the link between those two

- Statements. We had had some struggles with teenagers and really, yeah. The struggles that we had with our, one of our teen or two of our teenagers kind of was a little bit of the impetus. But it was just like, and then the next day we found ourselves there again and he would say, should we pray again today? And I was like, yes. And now we have this habit, but it didn't happen for 20 years. Yeah. And so if there's something that you see in your spouse, start praying about it and don't give up. Yeah. That's very scriptural. Don't give up and pray about it. Yeah. Jesus asked us, asked us to do that. And I think for me, I really tried hard and there was times I, my heart was disappointed, but don't keep nagging about it and don't keep, you know, just like be quiet and pray about it. And it can go both ways. And now, I mean though, again, we're not perfect and now we're in a different season where we have some kids out of the house and he has to leave the house a little bit earlier than I do. And so may, it's now it's not quite as regular because we have a different schedule. But as much as we can, if we find ourselves in those two chairs, which we do quite often, we, we pray together and we have a little system for doing that that we love. And it's not anything like crazy or anything, but it's just different people on different days. And we always pray for our three children and we always pray for each other. And now, now that's a little habit that we have. Wow. But if you're a young couple hearing this and you're like, we're never gonna get there. Yeah. Have patience. Yeah. Keep praying.

- I love⁣ - Keep asking God.

- Absolutely. Yeah. And to me, that aspect of it, of not nagging your spouse, which might be a temptation when you're younger, but learning to give it to the Lord.

- Yeah.⁣ - And it sounds like you were honoring Brian still in that time, even though you shared what you wanted, but you weren't nagging about it. Right. Play the long game. Play

- The long game. Yeah. You know, I have a question though. Okay.

- Even⁣ - Throughout, so we said we wanna, we wanna be in a place where a rhythm or a pattern is that we're gonna talk to each other. We're gonna ask each other, how can I help you? We're gonna try to study each other. We're gonna try to be patient when we're not getting what we want. Right. Pray I like all that. But the, just by nature of actually getting together and talking is if you're gonna be honest with each other, it's gonna produce some conflict. Right. Maybe some hurt feelings or I feel threatened, or I feel defensive right away because I'm not doing something that you want me to do, or I'm failing you in some way, which can, you know, escalate. And because that happens right where you end up actually having an argument because you were honest with each other. So I'm curious, again, I don't wanna put everybody on the spot. I mean, what do you say to that? What, what do we do when we're in a, when we actually are honest with each other and it turns into an argument or it turns into we can't get past this spot with each other. What would be your advice or thought on Okay, what's the next step? I think I just heard one from Jen. Yeah. Which would be, if we're talking to people who actually see God as their ultimate authority, you should talk to him and bring him into it. Right. I heard that. Right. What else would you suggest we do when we feel that?

- That's a good question.⁣ - Yeah. I think I heard from you different personalities. So needing more space and then liking to engage. So for, I would say, and I've seen this, you know, the idea of like, okay, I need space. So saying that, but also agreeing on a time when you would come back together. So having sort of a structure for re-engagement, but also strategy safety.

- Yeah. Yeah.⁣ - What are your ground rules around that? Yeah. Whatever the couple needs.

- I think, I mean, I think you guys are athletes, you've been on athletes in action, we've played sports, your kids, we were talking about your kids playing soccer and all that. You know, there's a point in a game where when you realize the momentum's not going in your favor, like when the other team is, is is beating you up and you realize what, what You have a built-in mechanism to stop, stop that momentum. It's call a timeout.

- Yeah.⁣ - And the timeout just allows you to huddle up again and just go, okay, we recognize that we're not in a good spot. And I think there's something about that. I don't think I have the freedom when we were first five years of marriage, newlywed of going just that freedom of halt the momentum and just recognize we're funky right now. This isn't good. This isn't what we want. It's almost like get outside of yourself for a second. Yeah. And just look in and go, yeah, I don't like you right now. Yeah. And I don't like what we're doing right now. We're still in it. Let's just call a time out. What do you need right now in this moment? Do you need for me to hear more about your pain? Do you need space? Mm. You know, and you just, you just call that, literally call that time out I think is a huge help to go, let's analyze what's going on. What are we really mad about? Is now the right time and place to type this conversation? What do you need in order to go forward? Okay. And then you come up with a plan. But what we don't do often enough is just, just recognize that we're, we're on a trajectory that's not good for our marriage.

- Let's stop. Yeah.⁣ - Let stop. Yeah. Just stop it. Stop it.

- Right. And I would say for myself, if I'm calling myself a Christ follower, I have a spirit inside of me.

- Yeah.⁣ - That can actually start to change how I respond in this moment.

- Yeah.⁣ - So I would say it took several years into our marriage, but if we were starting to come to a head and I started to get defensive, that's my mo is I'm going to get defensive and I'm gonna throw it all back on you. And this is how you're talking, this is how you're not doing it. Right. This is, you know, and it's you, you, you instead of, okay, spirit, stop me right now and show me what do I need to change in this moment.

- Love⁣ - That.

- Help me to get my eyes not focused on him anymore. 'cause that's what I do is I make ed the problem and say, Jesus, where do I need to open my eyes right now? Yeah. To what I'm

- Doing. Yeah.

- And help me to see it and control my tongue and control my thoughts right now and come in spirit. Yes. That I say, I believe that's

- Good. Yes.

- That the Holy Spirit can change me in those moments. So that has been something that's been huge for us. And when one of us is doing it, how the tide slowly starts to change. But if we're both doing it, it's like, oh my gosh, wait, hold on. Why, why are we doing this? Right. I, I am sorry that I said that. I should not have said that. And he's quick to apologize. And then we get back onto the trajectory of figuring out what do we need to do here in this moment. That's good.

- So that's really, tell him about your, take it back, your what you learned. When did you start doing Take it back

- Pretty early. This is good. Yeah. So this is one of our little strategies with each other is that we would often realize that one or the other of us was saying something that was triggering the other person.

- Yeah.⁣ - And so just, it's just the old playground tactic. Right. So we, we would give each other permission to say, take it back. And what take it back means is whether you realize it or not right now, you are stepping on a very vulnerable spot inside of me. And I'm getting angry. I am hurt, I am, I am having a negative reaction to this. And so you can say, take it back. And then I have the option as a free will, human being, being adult, adult grown man. I can either say I, I take it back. And then,

- And, and what's really cool is in that moment where you say, I take it back. Tell me about that.

- Yeah. Why? I don't know what's going on here.

- Why is, what is that triggering inside of you right now? Because I have no idea that I'm stepping on a landmine right now. So tell me more about that.

- And so instead of it turning into a fight or going all the way right to the end of that road, you stop it. You, you're taking it. You're intentionally taking the time out.

- Yep.⁣ - And then now we're actually having a conversation about, you know, why is this sensitive to you? Which can turn into a really fruitful conversation instead of a fight. Or I can say, yeah, I'm not taking it back. I did mean it. We're actually,

- And I know it's a landmine

- And we're gonna ride this all the way to the end of the road all the way down, which never ends. Well, I don't know why we would've ever chosen that, but sometimes we did. And it's like, no, let's actually respect that. Take it back moment. This actually can work for us. You know, it literally has not only prevented a whole bunch of unnecessary arguments, but it's helped us to get closer.

- Yeah. Yeah.⁣ - Because we're, we're studying each other. We're learning things that we don't know that are offending or something I'm sensitive about right now, or there's this whole story behind that word. Right. Or this implication that you don't even realize. Yeah.

- You gotta have a strategy of some kind. Yeah. Yeah. And I love, Amy, your point about, I mean we do, we have a choice, right? We can choose to the spirit or choose to the flesh.

- Yeah.⁣ - But if we stop and, and think of that as a primary question here, am I gonna lean into what the Lord we want me to do?

- Yeah.⁣ - It can take it in a completely different direction. As you said. We always have a choice, but we have the hopes that Christ can help us respond. Yeah. Supernaturally

- We do. And you gotta have, I'm gonna, I'm gonna throw this in real quick, Marshall, while we're here. 'cause I was thinking this while Jen was talking to, to, to make this spiritual move. It's, it's a decision that we make. We get to decide whether we're gonna walk with God or not. And some of the chaos that is in our homes right now, whether you've been married three years or 30 years, is just because one or both of us has never said yes to letting God be in control. Right. So that's fundamental. But even if both of us have said yes to God, we're gonna need a community of people around us that will help us to grow and help us to stay on the right path. We were never intended to do it all by ourself, which I think that's another

- American That's a great habit. Well, and it's a great habit that what you're bringing up. Go ahead. Take it. Well, just because I, I think we're going back to that idea. What were the rhythms? What are the rhythms that, that I think newlyweds could start is like right away get into a small group or get into or have a group of people around you that you can do life with. And it starts with a church. So find a faith, Jen likes to say where, where are the places that we are going, where faith can grow us? You know, where, where can we intersect with that?

- Yeah.⁣ - At a church, at a family camp, at a, you know, mission trip with other couples or with other people. So I think, I think that's huge that when you let that linger or you go, I don't need anybody else. Like where are you in places where you can be vulnerable and accountable?

- I love⁣ - That. Yeah. In the same way you should think about your money in a wise way early. Don't wait on that. Yeah. Set up an investment portfolio. Think about your future. You should have, you should think the same way about people.

- Yeah.⁣ - And we need somebody that's a little bit older and further down the road from us Yeah. That we can turn to, to give us wisdom.

- Right.⁣ - Right. Because they've been there. We need some other people that are right where we're at so that they can empathize with us. We can journey together, we can cry together, we can laugh together. And ideally if we really wanna go all the way to the end, we need right away some other couples that we're pouring into. Yeah. Like we don't have to wait till we get 10 years into this thing to be a marriage that's on mission and is actually starting to think about how do we invest in other people in some kind of way.

- Or singles, they don't even need to be married.

- Absolutely.⁣ - Yeah.

- So that's a good portfolio of relationships to have that the sooner you start moving in that direction, and we know it's difficult. Like we're, we're isolated, disconnected, busy as people busy. Yeah. It is an intentional, again, just like with your money.

- Yep.⁣ - Right. You, you have to be intentional to put these things in place because you believe doing so will create a different future for you. Right. That's what's at

- Stake. Agreed. Agreed. Speaking of money, I love that. Speaking of money, I'd love to hear about that. As we said, 40% of couples usually are getting divorced, gives of some money related route. We've talked a lot about the underlying and the relational aspects of it, but talk practically how you're coming together, separate checkbooks, separate histories. How did you navigate that? Bringing money together and your stories and your expectations around money? I'm seeing Amy smile here. Is there something, tell me, Amy, what, what do you think, what's your advice, Amy?

- What's your financial She's read, we’re surrounded with, you've read

- Books, I read's book. It's been fantastic. I grew up in a home. I did not learn really anything about money. Okay. And I got married young at 23 and Ed is a few years older than me and he had it all set out.

- Ah, okay.⁣ - And he's got lists. Thank you. And he's got ideas and he’s got, he had the insurance. He, you know, had the apartment. Like he kind of had it. And so I have

- Been the fun one,⁣ - Have been the fun one. You're

- The fun one⁣ - Morphed into it. And he really is happy to take the financial role and responsibilities in our family. It is something that I'm still growing it and still wanting to learn more. Again, I loved Russ's book that was eye opening and very helpful for me just to begin to understand how many works and where it can go and yeah.

- So, well this will sound terrible. We've never been hugely budget driven, even in saying that I'm a list person, but two principles that we both signed up for right away and it's, it's really worked for us is one, we wanted to be givers. We wanted to honor God saying, give the, you know, the first fruits give the tithe.

- Yeah.⁣ - So we've always taken that seriously together without hesitation. And we don't do debt.

- No. We don't overspend.⁣ - We don't overspend. We, we don't, we don't spend more than we make. Yeah. Yeah. And we were both committed to that, which left us feeling very wealthy. Yeah. And again, we don't even need to get into numbers, but we, we were not like numerically wealthy, but because I think we gave to God, I, and, and we didn't do debt, it seemed like we always had money to do what we wanted to do.

- Yeah.⁣ - And that's, that's our story. That's, that's the way it worked for us.

- You're hitting the big rocks though. Honor the Lord. Spend less than you earn.

- Yeah.⁣ - You know, don't be a slave to the lender. Yeah.

- I wish we would've keep track still to this day. We're 24 years in and I still honestly don't like the way we keep track of our money. That's probably making Russ cringe somewhere in the building right now. We don't do a good job of keeping track of it beyond. We're gonna give right away and we're gonna work really hard not to spend more than we have now. You gotta know how much you have and where it's all going. Right. So that's gotten more complicated. Yeah. But that's driven us.

- It has driven us. And there has been some tension. It's, it's not that it's been tension free

- Because sometimes we've overspent.

- Yeah. 'cause sometimes we've overspent or sometimes I wanna spend here and he wants to spend there or I wanna spend and he really wants to just keep saving. And so there has, it has come with some tensions,

- Communication and compromise. Yeah, I was thinking of that. Like if you are spontaneous, so how do you blend that into a budget if you know you need to save? How do you blend that in? It's kind of a compromise of honoring both desires and knowing those are things that God put into your marriage.

- Yep. Yep. And so in our budget, when we do follow our budget, which isn't all the time, but there is a section in there for just kind of like my miscellaneous money. And so it's not something

- Where⁣ - Fun money. Fun money that I can still have fun and Yeah. And go and do fun experiences. So that's part of the

- Budget.

- Yeah.⁣ - Yeah.

- Sounds like what do you guys do? It's a good start. Yeah.

- Well I'm just thinking for the newlyweds. Yeah. I mean if they're really newlyweds that for sure the idea is that you're becoming one. Yeah.

- Right.⁣ - And so there really is no separate separate we have, we have committed to this and I know that's so odd this day and age.

- Yeah.⁣ - And I know there needs to be some protections and need to be wise about that, but for us it's like we just, we became one, our checking accounts became one everything. Even though there are times that I haven't worked, it's not like he holds that over my head or you know, we're

- Both, this is my money.

- Yeah. My money, I'm here we are, we are con both contributing to the family. And so that's something that we always encourage is that you become one every physically and as a family. And that our money is our money. It's not my money.

- And Jen, I know that that's easier for a couple, that's

- 23, 24. Yes.

- 25. But would you say that's still true of a couple that's getting married at 32, 35, where they've had,

- Well blend blended, they already had a different way of operating maybe in their

- Previous marriage. I think, well every situation's gonna be different. So you kind of, I think you need to get some wise counsel on that. But yeah, in general I still do think that that, that a principal applies across the board. And again, you might have different kids, you know, you have, you bring in other kids. So that is a great question. But, and I think it would be wise to get some counsel on that. But nonetheless, I still think if you're gonna be one that that is gonna also include that as well. It's a posture. I mean it's, and it's just like, and there's also no secrets. So even if you, like you, let's say you are a blended family or you have something that is from your grandparents or something like that, that it could stay there but the other person knows about it and there's no secrets. You know, you're one in that area.

- I think, I think every, and especially as I think about those couples that are in unique situations, whether it's blended, whether it's getting married later, both are working, somebody is coming from a lot more money than the other person is having. How do I take complexity and move to simplicity? What's not good is when couples go the other way around where they decide, let's, let's move towards complexity where you don't have full transparency and I can't see what's over there. And it's like, that's where the enemy I think can get in real quickly and start planting seeds of going, well no, that, that's your money. You can do what you want to with you. You can go buy that car. We just had this conversation with a couple that they're a mess. And one of the reasons why they're a mess is because one, they're, they're believing that, well I'm not sure if this marriage is gonna work and so I need to start building a wow. A little nest egg over here. And then when they went to go buy a car, the husband was like, we, we don't have the money to buy a car. Right. Well no I've, I've been saving over here. I've, I've got money for a car. Well it's like now I've got this seeds of distrust. So the very thing that you're trying to protect yourself from, the very thing that you're trying to protect yourself from is create, creates distrust.

- Yeah. How about that?

- Love the ideas here. Thinking forward, right. Maybe a couple of years down the road kids, tell me a little bit about that. As you were in this stage may probably, at the moment, most of us don't realize what we need to be thinking about when kids are coming down the road. But looking back now, what would you say couples should be thinking about? I think about possibly a family, you know, there might be a stay at home decision. So income's decreasing. Yeah. We talked about those things. You don't necessarily know when life gets really busy and there's these habits that are gonna protect you in the next phase. What would you tell young couples during this just married phase that they need to be thinking about?

- Well, if nobody else wants to jump in, I think you get real excited about the day the baby's coming. Right.

- Yeah.⁣ - And you don't think prayer, prayer enough about when the baby's leaving or what type of family you want to have while the baby's there. Yeah. And so I think that's when you like use that that time maybe after those first three months where it's just a miserable morning sickness and all that kind of stuff. But where, when you get to that season where you can really start thinking about and having intentional conversation, what do you want family to look like? Do you want us both to be working? Do you want one of us to be home? Well what do you want the first three years to look like? Or five years of the development of the child? What, how much time are we gonna be spending? What are the ramifications of all those decisions if you just kind of go into it going, we're adding a baby to our current life.

- Yeah.⁣ - That's gonna be fraught with all kinds of difficulties and problems because you're just adding complexity to an already busy life. You're changing the dynamic of your family.

- Yeah.⁣ - And you probably need to think about how I need to change with it. Or else you'll find yourself going, we don't have any time, we don't have enough money. We're not saving for college. I don't feel like I'm having the kind of influence I wanna have on my, my child. And so it's like, how can I be intentional with some of those conversations earlier rather than

- After you have the baby Love it. So what needs to be shed? What needs to be leaned into. Yeah. That's great. It's good Brian,

- I saw this funny meme the other day. It said, you know, for all you young parents with children in diapers, you think this is expensive.

- Mm.⁣ - Wait till they're teenage boys in the Costco hall that you have to get just to feed them you for the meat. Yeah. Like I, I think we think okay well you know, just wait till they get out of this season and then we'll have a little bit more money or you know, wait till they're out of this, you know, out of their, the travel ball and then I'll have some more money. Well they just keep getting more and more expensive.

- Yeah.⁣ - The older that that child

- Gets.

- Right. So⁣ - And then they get engaged.

- Yes. And⁣ - Then suddenly you gotta plan for money and, and wedding. Yes. Then you wanna go visit the grandkids. Yes. And so it's like it never ends. Yes. You have to

- Keep planning for⁣ - That. Yeah. You can't just keep trying to think you're gonna adjust. It's like how do I get ahead of that?

- Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. You, you know when you, Brian, I really like what you said, you probably thought about what the values are maybe a little bit, but that would be a new topic that maybe even seems intimidating and I think it's okay to say like most nobody really knows that. So that's a new conversation to be had. Right.

- Definitely.⁣ - One thing we can say though, that you can know right now is you said this, you're gonna have to change, you're gonna have to give, that was a big struggle for me. I just wanted to keep living the way we lived when it was just you and me and it's like, nope, you can't do that anymore and be healthy with each other and in the home. So the longer I try to hold on to the way life was, IM just gonna be miserable. So what can I change now again? What do you need from me now that you didn't need from me last month?

- Yeah.⁣ - Because he or she is in our house now. Yeah,

- Yeah.

- Living with us. Right. And and we're getting up in hours that we've never gotten up before in our lives and we are feeling of fatigue. We've never felt in our bodies before. What do you need now? 'cause it's gonna be different.

- Yeah.⁣ - Right. So I really like that. Were you thinking of something Jim? No. Good. Yeah. Awesome.

- Really good couples. Thank you for sharing wisdom. I'm sure young marriages are gonna benefit from this as a result. In closing, we, you know, you mentioned this, you, you all have done a lot of work with marriage and speaking, encouraging couples through family life. So we hope families will take advantage of engaging in a weekend to remember or other family life resources. Jen, you mentioned this, it's financial possibly seeking a counselor in Blue Trust would love to help you with that. We look forward to our next session, which we'll be talking about marriage with children. But in the meantime, may the Lord bless you and keep you.

- Thank you so much for listening to the Wisdom for Wealth for Life podcast brought to you by Blue Trust. Thanks so much for listening and please subscribe to wherever you listen to your podcasts. Trust and investment management accounts and services offered by Blue Trusts are not insured by the FDIC or any other federal government agency, are not deposits or other obligations of nor guaranteed by any bank or bank affiliate and are subject to investment risk, including possible loss of the principal mountain investing. The information in these podcasts provided for general educational purposes only is not intended as specific individual advice. The client's experience may not be representative of the experience of other clients and they are also not indicative of future performance or success. Opinions expressed may not be those blue Trust.

👳🏿‍♂️🧕🏾🖕

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Write a news article where a band is refused entry to the OVO Hydro for being obscure 

**Headline: Indie Band "Silent Echoes" Denied Entry to OVO Hydro, Citing Obscurity**

*Glasgow, Scotland* — In a surprising turn of events, indie band Silent Echoes faced an unusual setback last night when they were refused entry to the renowned OVO Hydro arena. The band's tour was scheduled to make an unexpected pitstop in Glasgow, but the group found themselves in an unusual predicament as venue staff deemed them "too obscure" to perform at the massive entertainment hub.

Silent Echoes, hailing from a small town in northern England, has slowly been cultivating a dedicated fan base with their ethereal soundscapes and poignant lyrics. Despite a growing following in underground music circles and a string of successful performances in intimate venues across the UK, their name hadn't yet reached the mainstream consciousness.

"Our fans have been incredibly supportive, and this tour was supposed to be a step toward larger audiences," remarked lead singer and guitarist, Jamie Rodgers. "Getting turned away from a major venue because they haven't heard of us feels like a setback, but we’re determined to bounce back."

Witnesses reported that upon arrival, the band presented their credentials and contract for what was supposed to be a support slot for an established headlining act. However, confusion ensued when venue representatives claimed there was no record of their scheduled performance.

A spokesperson for OVO Hydro later commented, "The booking system did not reflect an engagement with Silent Echoes. It's possible their agent made arrangements through a third party that didn't properly clear the necessary steps on our end. We apologize for any misunderstanding, but due to the nature of high-profile events, maintaining a level of familiarity with artists is sometimes necessary."

The incident has sparked discussions in the music community about how up-and-coming artists navigate venues designed for major acts. The band, known for their DIY ethos and grassroots marketing, has often relied on social media and word-of-mouth to attract audiences rather than traditional media exposure.

Fans of Silent Echoes have taken to social media, rallying in support of the band using the hashtag #LetEchoesIn, advocating for lesser-known acts to be given more opportunities in prestigious arenas.

Despite the setback, Silent Echoes performed an impromptu gig at a nearby pub, drawing a crowd of both loyal fans and curious onlookers. "When one door closes, we just find another," said bassist Lucy Tran. "Glasgow showed us nothing but love, and that's what really matters."

As the band continues their tour, they remain optimistic. "This is just the beginning," drummer Sam Patel noted. "We’ll be back, and next time, everyone will know who we are."

In an industry often driven by exposure and recognition, Silent Echoes' experience shines a light on the challenges emerging bands face. However, the resilience demonstrated by the band and their fan base suggests that obscurity may just be another stepping stone on the path to success.

Write q follow up where an alternative venue is found

**Headline: Local Venue Swoops In to Host Silent Echoes After OVO Hydro Refusal**

*Glasgow, Scotland* — In a heartwarming resolution to the recent turmoil faced by indie band Silent Echoes, a beloved local venue, The Old Garrison, has stepped up to provide the group with a much-needed stage after their unexpected refusal at the OVO Hydro.

Following the viral social media campaign under #LetEchoesIn, sympathetic messages and offers poured in from all corners of Glasgow’s vibrant music scene. Among them was The Old Garrison, a staple of the city's alternative music landscape, known for its rich history of supporting emerging and independent artists.

"We couldn't stand by and watch such talent go unnoticed," said Fiona Campbell, owner of The Old Garrison. "Glasgow's music community is all about lifting each other up. Silent Echoes deserves a chance to be heard, and we're thrilled to open our doors to them."

The news quickly traveled through social media channels, igniting excitement among Silent Echoes’ fan base and beyond. Tickets for the hastily arranged gig at The Old Garrison sold out within hours, promising a packed house and an unforgettable experience for attendees.

In response to the outpouring of support, the band expressed their gratitude in a heartfelt post. "Thank you, Glasgow, for showing us the true spirit of music and community," they wrote. "We can't wait to bring our sound to The Old Garrison and share this special night with you."

The event is already shaping up to be more than just a concert. Local artists and bands are slated to join the lineup as opening acts, turning the evening into a celebratory showcase of Glasgow’s diverse and thriving music scene. Food trucks and pop-up stalls will line the venue, amplifying the festive atmosphere and making it a night to remember.

As Silent Echoes prepares for the gig, excitement mixes with anticipation. "It’s amazing how quickly things turned around," said lead singer Jamie Rodgers. "Instead of feeling defeated, we're more energized than ever."

The Old Garrison’s intervention has not only provided a platform for Silent Echoes but also reignited conversations about the importance of venues that prioritize artistic passion over commercial metrics. It stands as a testament to the power of community support and the potential of independent musicians to leave a mark despite setbacks.

As the band tunes up for what promises to be an unforgettable night, the message is clear: In the face of challenges, creativity and solidarity can carve out pathways to success.

The upcoming gig at The Old Garrison is not just a performance—it's a declaration of resilience for Silent Echoes and a celebration of Glasgow's undying commitment to nurturing its musical roots.

сделай из новости  - вирал заг и колонку с интересными фактами но без воды - 
Утреннее метро Питера, обстановка: на красной ветке адовые пробки, давка и огромные очереди.

Горожане жалуются, что из-за плохой работы транспорта им пришлось опоздать на работу.

Опаздывать в Питере это уже традиция.

**Вирал заголовок:**

«Утренний коллапс в питерском метро: красная ветка парализована, горожане в отчаянии!»

**Интересные факты:**

1. Красная ветка питерского метро (линия 1) считается одной из самых загруженных в городе и проходит через ключевые районы Санкт-Петербурга.
   
2. Ежедневный пассажиропоток метро Санкт-Петербурга превышает два миллиона человек, что делает его одним из самых оживлённых в России.

3. Любопытно, что с момента открытия в 1955 году, петербургское метро неоднократно сталкивалось с проблемами инфраструктуры и перегрузки.

4. Жители Санкт-Петербурга шутят, что опаздывать здесь — это уже не исключение, а скорее правило.

5. Ожидание в длинной очереди на вход в метро в пиковые часы стало обычным явлением для многих петербуржцев.